Anti reflective coatings and sunglasses?

[slaboff]

I agree that all coatings are not created equal... I think the primary difference is the hydrophobic coating and the bottom hard coating... plus matching substrates... I am not a arc expert but from what i Know that is the main difference between them

[Chris Ryser]

Chris, I thought you said that all ar coatings are the same? I agree that alize' is a great product however we do not use it...

slaboff, I am still saying that they are all the same...............in principle. One uses different metal oxides......applies a few more layers....a differently sourced hydrophobic as top layer.

What you got to deal with is that the ones who have the largest publicity budget and with that reach. the widest circle of the public, creates the brand name.

Once you have spread the brand name, the public will ask for it when purchasing glasses. Remember the old advertisng fight............Hertz wasnumber one................and Avis was number 2.

The optical has changed a lot, it used to be the optician that was recommending the best for more money. Today it is the public asking for the products that might not even be the right ones for them.

The independent small company is much more flexibe and can make changes a 100 times faster than the large corporation with a lot of red tape. Therefore this type of business will very often come out with newer and better techniques than the large corporation which are lacking behind. Not all the glitter is gold.

[AWTECH]

Chris makes a great point that AR as represented to dispensers is basicly all the same. The big difference is what it is applied to and the bonding of the combination of lens material to hard coating, then the bonding of the first AR stack (layer) to the hard coating.

There are many subtile differences between AR the performance related to total light transmission can vary depending on the thickness, density, and material used. An AR can be made with 4 or 6 layers. Is the 6 better than the 4? Not necessarily, it would depend on the actual design of each and how they perform. I could go on with other detailed examples of differences.

Marketing is another story. And Chris is right on target about smaller companies being the leaders in development of new technologies. Large companies buy these developments very few are invented by them. Products such as Trivex, not invented by PPG just licenced and marketed by them, (nothing against PPG they do a great job in many ways).

As to the point of this thread regarding AR on sunglass lenses, I am shocked at how many still responded in a way suggesting that they preferred AR on both sides, when I explained in detail that this is counter productive to what you are accomplishing with a tinted lens. This is an example of large companies marketing power pushing a good logical thought process out the window and filling the minds of their customers with, "Buy (product X), it is great for every use no matter what direction other facts will point you to"

[Alvaro Cordova]

<snip>
The optical has changed a lot, it used to be the optician that was recommending the best for more money. Today it is the public asking for the products that might not even be the right ones for them.
<snip>

It is weird isn't it. Doctors used to be the ones prescribing the ideal drug. I think drug commercials, for example, are a horrible idea. The problem is of course name recognition ≠ quality, necessarily. Why should any patient ask their doctor about a certain drug? I find this behavior to be so idiotic. If my doctor thought this drug would be effective, than my doctor would prescribe it. Anytime the public is informed about an option from a corporate point of view it is almost always a dangerous idea simply because it is one sided. And sometimes a little bit of knowledge is worse than complete ignorance. I find that many people confuse impact resistance with scratch resistance. So when I explain poly to a patient that wants both, it is difficult to re-educate the patient because of what they already "learned." It's a really bad trend that I am afraid isn't going to go away. Good point Chris.

[AWTECH]

And sometimes a little bit of knowledge is worse than complete ignorance.

In our non-optical sales of plano sunglasses we find retailers who retail sales people and consumers who easily confuse UV protection and polarized. I know had many people show me their sunglasses and say "these are polarized too", and when I take my sunglasses and hold them over theirs at 90 degrees, guess what? No Polarization. "But they said they were polarized".

As professionals despensing prescription eyewear it is up to you to make the point to your patient (customer), that you are the expert, no matter what they have heard. It is our job as a supplier to the optical retailers to show them where our technology is best applied and then for the optician to clearly understand and believe in our technology. If we do our job of explaining the technology and the optican does their job we should sell our lenses where they are appropriate.

What really makes this logical a struggle for many lens companies is that single vision finished CR-39 lenses are a commodity with very little difference other than the name on the package.

[Chris Ryser]

............................ I am shocked at how many still responded in a way suggesting that they preferred AR on both sides, when I explained in detail that this is counter productive to what you are accomplishing with a tinted lens. This is an example of large companies marketing power pushing a good logical thought process out the window and filling the minds of their customers with, "Buy (product X), it is great for every use no matter what direction other facts will point you to"

AWTECH, It is sad that the optical business has arrived at a point where opticians learn and accept their working knowdledge from sales reps that are one way oriented as well as from publicity material put out by the large corporations or advertising by the directly to the public in magzines, newpapares and TV.

At a time like now, where the media wants everybody to believe that the economy is all fancy dandy, while all indications world wide are, that there is a big slowdown in the works. Right here on the optiboard the main issues for discussions are how to sell the most expensive variations in the optical retail with a minimal technical knowdlege of the subject.

It is our job as a supplier to the optical retailers to show them where our technology is best applied and then for the optician to clearly understand and believe in our technology. If we do our job of explaining the technology and the optican does their job we should sell our lenses where they are appropriate.

If more suppliers would participate on the optical forums and do more explaining on products and their technical aspects the place could get much more interesting. Right now there are very few participants, that at least are known to represent certain interest's and can talk about them because they know these products and their purpose.

It is weird isn't it. Doctors used to be the ones prescribing the ideal drug. I think drug commercials, for example, are a horrible idea. The problem is of course name recognition ≠ quality, necessarily

The situation in the optical retail is just about the same. The public is brainwashed towards some products. The optician does not have to use any brainposer because Mr or Mrs Public is already asking for the advertised products, if they will serve the individual purpose is a different question.

There are statistics out there on the % of users of PALS, AR coatings and so forth. Those statistics defy most opinions discussed in the forums. Why not discuss also the daily happenings? The normal bread and butter sales made or the ones that defied the by advertising opinionated Mrs Public by selling her something else.

Have a good weekend.

[spartus]

In our non-optical sales of plano sunglasses we find retailers who retail sales people and consumers who easily confuse UV protection and polarized.

Back when I worked in a sunglass shop, there would be days where so many people would come in, one after another with crazy ideas you'd almost swear a TV show giving hilariously bad and incorrect information had been on the night before.

"Does polarized make them darker?"

"UV coating--that means they get darker outside, right?"

"Grey lenses make you see better."

"Ray-Bans are the BEST glasses!"

"I got these Oakleys in Mexico for $5.00, and they're real."

"Polycarbon...huh? I want plastic lenses."

"I didn't drop them, the lens just shattered on its own."

"They were like that when I opened the case."

And, my favorite of all:

"Are these real?"

Tells me a few things: 1) You have no manners, 2) You're dumb, because 3) You've been taken before.