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Thread: Ipseo

  1. #1
    OptiBoard Professional Mike Fretto's Avatar
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    Ipseo

    What are the thoughts out there on the new Ipseo by Varilux. We have done a few and it seems to work well.
    Mike

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    Master OptiBoarder OptiBoard Gold Supporter Judy Canty's Avatar
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    Wish I could help but we haven't seen any info as yet. Is it in general distribution or only in selected markets? Pete?

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    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
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    Varilux Ipseo is currently available through a small network of about 120 private practices in the northeast and southeast. By the end of the year, around 250 offices should be dispensing the product.

    The reason for the limited availability is three-fold. First, the Vision Print System- which is the instrument used to measure a patient's head/eye movement ratio- is available in limited supply. Second, the in-office training and support required to place a VPS unit requires resources to train the lens consultant, the office, and the laboratory who will be fulfilling the orders. Third, Varilux Ipseo is available in 1.67 with Crizal Alize only. The high index and AR market in America lags behind those in other markets, so identifying offices with sustained usage of these products is a must for success.

    Once we do place a VPS unit, the success rate is pretty high. The biggest obstacle has been practices that have trouble positioning a $600 lens. I would be interested to hear how you position the VPS unit, and the product in your practice- Mike. I am always interested to hear how the product is received in "real life."

    By the end of next year, I believe there should be about 500 units in place around the country. If you are interested in having Varilux Ipseo in your practice, I would suggest contacting your Essilor Brand Consultant. This isn't a mainstream product yet- merely an introduction to the future of progressive lenses. There will be future designs which will also utilize the head/eye movement ratio measurements.
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

    http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74

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    One of the worst people here
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    We hope to be fitting the lens up in September or October.

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    Master OptiBoarder Jedi's Avatar
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    Pete,
    Is the Transition V lens available in the US currently?
    "It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home."


  6. #6
    OptiBoard Professional Lewy's Avatar
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    It's just become available in the Uk having had the clear lens since last November. it's not cheap, retailing at about $800 at a guess. Sales are fairly low in comparison to say Comfort or Panamic but it seems to go in waves, nothing 1 week and several the next. If someone wants the 'best' then the Ipseo fits the bill. If you want a lens that doesn't appear to non tol then again the ipseo is the lens. Results have been very good I just wish I was a better salesman <grin>. The use of the Vision Print system certainly helps as Px's then see that more care and attention is needed to fit the lenses and can the percieve a greater value in the product. As an opener I now use the phrase to existing Vx wearers "what improvements could we make to your lenses?" This usually leads on the the benefits of optimized visual zones more comfortable vision etc and leads to an order.


    Just my pennyworth.

    Lewy

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    One of the worst people here
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    It might be expensive, but if people are willing to spend $10,000 on a Plasma TV to get a better picture (see better) then would they not be willing to pay $800 for a pair of lenses that will help them see better?

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    Master OptiBoarder Jedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewy
    As an opener I now use the phrase to existing Vx wearers "what improvements could we make to your lenses?"
    I like it.

    For-life,
    That's the right idea.
    I also like to think of the amatuer golfer that buys the $600 driver, $2000 irons, $400 putter, $10 a pop balls and wears $15 gas station sunglasses.
    :hammer:
    "It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home."


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    I have to give Essilor credit with the set up for this though. With the Ipseo you get:

    - The best AR (Alize)
    - The best high index lens (1.67)
    - Free Transitions if you want
    - They put on a great presentation
    - They will etch your initials in the lens

    and

    - they only do it with the second best residul colour (Alize - green, instead of D Alize - blue):hammer:

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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    It might be expensive, but if people are willing to spend $10,000 on a Plasma TV to get a better picture (see better) then would they not be willing to pay $800 for a pair of lenses that will help them see better?
    Your point is quite valid, however.....

    Plasma televisions are below $3000 now, and according to Consumer Reports should drop another 50% over the next year. LCD sets are superior to plasma and getting larger every month.

    The problem with paying $800 for lenses is that for brand new presbyopes the Rx changes quickly - my OD says I'll need new lenses probably in 12-18 months. The LCD television will last two decades.

    And if you get a 60-inch TV, then it's big enough that you can see it without getting new specs :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    It might be expensive, but if people are willing to spend $10,000 on a Plasma TV to get a better picture (see better) then would they not be willing to pay $800 for a pair of lenses that will help them see better?
    Do you not think that like everything else in life (better nappies, whiter than white soap powder etc) PAL manufacturers are falling over themselves to improve on products that may have already reached their pinnacle?
    I find that many PAL wearers are more than happy with even some of the budget lenses on the market. Is there really a massive amount of room for improvement?
    It also seems that current 'improvements' seem to move production even further away from the capabilities of the smaller independent lab.
    Before much longer I feel like there will be lenses we cannot produce being sold into frames we cannot glaze. Not a good thing IMO.

    Rick

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsandr
    Do you not think that like everything else in life (better nappies, whiter than white soap powder etc) PAL manufacturers are falling over themselves to improve on products that may have already reached their pinnacle?
    I find that many PAL wearers are more than happy with even some of the budget lenses on the market. Is there really a massive amount of room for improvement?
    It also seems that current 'improvements' seem to move production even further away from the capabilities of the smaller independent lab.
    Before much longer I feel like there will be lenses we cannot produce being sold into frames we cannot glaze. Not a good thing IMO.

    Rick
    It is evolution of products.


    Really, what do we need in a car? We need it to move. Do we really need power steering, power locks, power windows, power brakes, air bags, anti-lock breaks, V-8, Air Conditioning, DVD players, a stereo, leather seats, heated seats, automatic transmission, chrome rims, sun roofs, ect. ect. ect?

    Why don't we just go back to glass flat tops, or even better yet, two pairs. No AR, no transitions, no lightness, no thinness, inconvientent, in a black plastic frame.


    Vision is that of a great thing, and the more we can improve our vision the better. This is not a materialistic thing, it is an every day thing we have to put up with. If you can get a lens that will substantially make life easier, and get rid of the distortion in the lens (moving it to areas where the user does not use it) you do not think that is worth it?

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    Thumbs up

    We have fit 28 patients in the Ipseo since July 1st. Great success so far. Out of the mix, we've taken 2 patients out of Tri-focals, 4 patients out of bi-focals and the remainer were previous progressive or single vision wearers. Price is high but patients have commented after wering the lens for a few days that it was well worth the cost.

  14. #14
    OptiBoard Professional Lewy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    It is evolution of products.


    Really, what do we need in a car? We need it to move. Do we really need power steering, power locks, power windows, power brakes, air bags, anti-lock breaks, V-8, Air Conditioning, DVD players, a stereo, leather seats, heated seats, automatic transmission, chrome rims, sun roofs, ect. ect. ect?
    Yes we do need all those things. Try driving an old model after a new one!

    If new products didn't evolve then business would either stagnate or dissapear altogether. Would you be happy listening to a 78rpm LP on a wind up gramaphone, or would you rather listen to MP3's on your Ipod?

    Lewy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michele Self
    We have fit 28 patients in the Ipseo since July 1st. Great success so far. Out of the mix, we've taken 2 patients out of Tri-focals, 4 patients out of bi-focals and the remainer were previous progressive or single vision wearers. Price is high but patients have commented after wering the lens for a few days that it was well worth the cost.
    Wow, just wow!

    I mean how many other PAL's can do that. I have always been told to never, ever take a trifocal wearer and put them in a PAL. It shows you that this lens is actually different from those on the market.

  16. #16
    Optiboard Professional Bill West's Avatar
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    Money! Money!

    If this lens retails for say an average of $700.00 a pair. what is the profit in $ and in % to the dispenser? Are we making quite a bit more or just lining the pockets of a large corp that is always looking for an edge. Some people in this country have so much $ that it don't matter, but the vast majority will still appreciate the Navigator in Sunsensors for $ 250.00. I'll go with the masses on this one.
    Gee, maybe I should work more than 3.5 days a week, could I make more $ ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill West
    If this lens retails for say an average of $700.00 a pair. what is the profit in $ and in % to the dispenser? Are we making quite a bit more or just lining the pockets of a large corp that is always looking for an edge. Some people in this country have so much $ that it don't matter, but the vast majority will still appreciate the Navigator in Sunsensors for $ 250.00. I'll go with the masses on this one.
    Gee, maybe I should work more than 3.5 days a week, could I make more $ ?
    Err...

    Similar or a little less than regular. I know my percentage upgrade will be lower when I do it, but still make a good penny. Word of mouth with this product is huge. But remember, this product comes with:

    - 1.67 Index only
    - Alize only
    - Transitions V if you want
    - Your (customer) initials engraved in the lens if you want

    So go and price this product out to a pair of Panamic's at 1.67 Alize Transitions. It will be a little more, but not too much more.

  18. #18
    Rising Star
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    evolution of free form

    There are companays that are far beyond this stage of evolution with progressives ( Zeiss Individual and Rodenstock Impression).
    Essilor seems to have you choose between a hard and soft design, but they do it with a tool (?). Others give you the freedom to CHANGE lens properties according to much more significant data ( vertex, panto, wrap and actual inset far and near pd's)

    I have tried all 3 and found the Zeiss and Rodenstock more "Individual" (except for patients initials, nice touch!!)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    It is evolution of products.


    Really, what do we need in a car? We need it to move. Do we really need power steering, power locks, power windows, power brakes, air bags, anti-lock breaks, V-8, Air Conditioning, DVD players, a stereo, leather seats, heated seats, automatic transmission, chrome rims, sun roofs, ect. ect. ect?

    Why don't we just go back to glass flat tops, or even better yet, two pairs. No AR, no transitions, no lightness, no thinness, inconvientent, in a black plastic frame.


    Vision is that of a great thing, and the more we can improve our vision the better. This is not a materialistic thing, it is an every day thing we have to put up with. If you can get a lens that will substantially make life easier, and get rid of the distortion in the lens (moving it to areas where the user does not use it) you do not think that is worth it?
    But cars have had much of what they have today since the 80's.
    Cars had ABS, air con, electric windows, heated seats, remote central locking, turbochargers 20 years ago. Are modern cars any better?
    Like I said things plateau, we do a budget vari that cost a few bucks, then there are these free form lenses costing 20 times more, how much better are they? If at all.
    I reckon a lot of what people feel they need is due to marketing. I spoke to someone this week who insisted they *had* to have Varilux Comfort lenses. Despite my vain attempts to save them money they insisted so I priced them up for them. Upon checking the setup of their current pair I noted they were wearing Experts (unscupulous prior dispenser they had paid Comfort prices), says it all really.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lensguy
    There are companays that are far beyond this stage of evolution with progressives ( Zeiss Individual and Rodenstock Impression).
    Essilor seems to have you choose between a hard and soft design, but they do it with a tool (?). Others give you the freedom to CHANGE lens properties according to much more significant data ( vertex, panto, wrap and actual inset far and near pd's)

    I have tried all 3 and found the Zeiss and Rodenstock more "Individual" (except for patients initials, nice touch!!)
    The Ipseo is customized based on head and eye movement, not just hard or soft design. It is also based on the other factors you mentioned too. Basically, the other individual lens are mainly a molded lens that will help out wearers with a lot of astigmatism and make it a little clearer.

    I have to question the marginal benefits between the Navigator, Comfort and some of the customized lenses on the market to see if the increase in value = the cost increase.


    Rsandr, I think this is what you are talking about. Is there really a need to boost up the lens and can the customer really tell the difference. While these are PAL's I think the Ipseo should be classified differently, because the design is completely customized to the patients head movement, and while a customer might see marginal changes between the Navigator and the Comfort and maybe a little more into the Zeiss Individual, I believe there will be a major difference between those lenses and the Ipseo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Fretto
    What are the thoughts out there on the new Ipseo by Varilux. We have done a few and it seems to work well.
    We just recently started selling the Ipseo lens in our office, and are quite impressed with the reactions so far. Our toughest customer was the OD that we work for. He had LASIK a few years ago, but needs reading glasses periodically. We put him in the panamic lens and he did not like the limited reading area or the distortions in the periphery. His first word when he put on his new IPSEO lenses was WOW! So far we have dispensed maybe 20 pairs, and so far so good. We are excited to offer this product to patients that may have had troubles with other progressives in the past. If the patient is happy with their current lens, we are happy to keep them in it....but if they express any discomfort with their lenses we definately explain the benefits of the new lens. I think it is exciting to be able to offer the newest and latest technology to our patients. AND..I am so impressed with ALIZE'. What a wonderful product!!:)

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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    The Ipseo is customized based on head and eye movement, not just hard or soft design. It is also based on the other factors you mentioned too.
    So does this customization make the pt fit even more important than ever? (or more difficult somehow?)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by phill
    I am so impressed with ALIZE'. What a wonderful product!!:)
    Curious as to why... is it the improved scratch resistance, or the easy-to-clean-smudges gimmick, or the opportunity to make more bucks?

    and aren't the zeiss coatings still better (no war strike intended... :) )

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    Hello All:


    Let's take a look at the big picture, and let's not fall into another marketing "trap." Understanding that a customized progressive is a neat and different option to our patients, and that others have had some success converting tri and bi's with this lens product, I have found that many of today's front surface progressive lens technologies (within the past 4-5 years) perform phenomenally with today's active patients while keeping pricing within reason. Also keep in mind, that by introducing more and more variables, and giving the patient the opportunity to introduce inaccurate data to the equation, thus leaving one baffled that they spent as you say $700, $800, $900????!!! for a pair of lenses that leave them with the same visual experience as their existing pair is unnecessary and not worth the trouble and long turn around time. Product 'adaptation' falls in the hands of the qualified dispenser to inform/educate the consumer how to 'learn' how to wear their new lenses, and to fit based on their overall needs, not with what will pull the largest buck. It WILL be a matter of time when this will be passed on to all of our competitors (insert chain retailer here), who will be able to sell the same thing for considerably less. Oh well....


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    Bunny, no the fitting would not be changed in anyway. All that happens is that the computer measures eye and head movement to determine what lens would be best for the customer (out of 30,000 designs) so that distortion of the lens is placed into areas that are not used.

    As for Alize, gimmick, pfft...

    I make less money off of the Crizal Alize than I made off of Crizal (per job). My customers love it because with the old AR they had to clean their lenses several times a day. With Alize they do not get that. Plus they do not get the streaks on their lenses.

    Gimmick is something like believing a specific brand of lenses will always be better than any other brand. I like the Alize because it is what I use. I know that there are some competitors to it out there that work just as fine.


    D 75771

    The Ipseo is not just a molded Panamic. Like I said, it has 30,000 different designs (i know I sound like a marketing machine, but at this price for the lens you have to learn to market. Plus I have a marketing degree so...)

    Also, if you saw the way and the time the machine takes you will see that it eliminates much of human error.



    When I was finishing University I did a project where we had to do some statistics. While everyone else did a regression I did a Neural model. The Neural model was similar, but because it ran so many times it eliminated error. Just like how this machine is done it eliminates the human error.

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