Poll for those who have fininshed Harry Potter & the Half-Blood Prince

[Pete Hanlin]

Pretty simple poll, but you have to finish the book before you can take it (I've put an enchantment on it that only allows those who have read the book to complete it ;^).

PS- If you take it without reading the book first, green hair will begin sprouting out of your nose and ears- of course, for some of you, this may go unnoticed for a while... :bbg:

[Jubilee]

Do we get to discuss why we think that? OR is this a spoiler free zone for the oh too curious?


Of course, I think Snape is a good guy, and did something he didn't want to do.

Cassandra

[Pete Hanlin]

I believe this should be a safe zone- because it does say "those who have finished the half-blood prince."Here's my take... as you recall, in the beginning of the book, as Snape makes the "unbreakable vow" his hand twitches or something (I forget exactly what, but I remember noting he did something) when it gets to the part about carrying out the mission if Draco couldn't do it. So, I think when he supposedly killed Dumbledore, he really just put him into some sort of trance.

After all, Harry told Dumbledore that the device Malfoy was working on was finished before they left Hogwarts- so Dumbledore knew the DeathEaters would be arriving that night. Furthermore, Dumbledore had to realize they hadn't really picked up the horcrux. Finally, what better way for Dumbledore to take on Voldemort than having himself presumed dead?

Just my guesses, though...

[Jubilee]

I understand, but I really think Dumbledore is dead.

Thinking back to the unbreakable vow, indeed Snape's hand twitches, and their was a bit of hesitation. I am assuming that he indeed inform Dumbledore of making the vow.

I can't find the exact reference now, but there was a moment when an arguement between Snape and Dumbledore was overheard, and it was over Snape not wanting to do something. I believe it was then that Dumbledore was telling Snape to do what he had to do to keep both Malfoy, and Snape safe.

Why would Dumbledore make sure to freeze Harry when it was just Draco and the head of Hogwarts up in the tower? To make sure Harry didn't cause the death of Draco, and possibly Snape. Harry would have killed Draco to protect Dumbledore, which obviously Dumbledore doesn't want. That is the reason why he kept talking to Draco, to make him realize that this isn't what either of them wants. That while working for the Death Eaters sounds appealing, the actual work is more than what he bargained for. Similar to Regulus Black.

Snape and Dumbledore couldn't have cheated death somehow, with a potion, charm, or clever spell. The moment Snape failed to follow the terms set forth by the unbreakable vow, he would have died. My take on the pleading scene in the tower is that Dumbledore is trying to get Snape to do what must be done. Dumbledore would think that Snape's role as double agent was worth more than his own. Not to mention the selflessness that Dumbledore seems to represent on his own. I can see where he would gladly give his life for two others to be saved. Especially for a man who ealier stated that for "an organized mind, death is the next great adventure." Though I am sure he will still be in contact with the order, and with Harry through his picture, and I wouldn't be suprised if Fawkes makes it into Harry's possession.

As for the horcruxes, I believe that one or more may be already in the order's possession. If memory serves me well, there was one necklace that couldn't be open at Number 12 Grimwauld Place. I will take some time to reread the last two books to see what else I can place. I am placing my money that RAB is Regulus Black, and he wasn't nearly as weak as his dear brother Sirius took him to be.

Cassandra

[Pete Hanlin]

Your theory has merit- because I also recall Dumbledore repeatedly affirming to Harry that "your life is more important than mine." He also insisted on Harry agreeing to run away- even if it appeared Dumbledore would be in peril. That indeed sounds like someone who has it in his mind to die.

Still, I think that somehow Snape managed to get around this unbreakable vow stuff by doing something when he was taking it (I don't know, crossing his fingers or something)...

Perhaps Dumbledore won't return- or perhaps he'll pull one of those Star Wars deals where Obi Wan comes back as a ghost. "Use the force, Harry- use the force!"

I know there are several kids reading the book in this neighborhood. I keep waiting to hear the screaming when they get to the part where Dumbledore dies. I have a friend who is reading the book to his child, and you almost want to give the same warning that Long John Silver receives in Treasure Island "be prepared for stormy weather when you reach your destination." (Because the gold had already been moved by Ben Gunn...).

PS- Sorry, Treasure Island was the first "serious" book I read as a child- at 9 years old, it was quite a story... Even better was I bought the book at a book fair, and it was bound in the early 1900s- giving the paper a very old and- to my imagination- salty appearance. I still enjoy that book.

[Jubilee]

I loved Treasure Island as well.

Actually, now that you mentioned that book, I think that will be our next family read. My 8 year old son loves the whole pirate thing, and I think this would be a good book to try to get him into reading more on his own.

As far as Harry Potter, I do hope to see Dumbledore in the next book. Though him being alive would be hard if he also appears in the portrait in the Headmistress's Chambers.

I was so upset when I read that scene.. I was suprised I didn't wake the hubby (I finished it at 1am, reading in bed) With me bolting up, and trying hard not to scream:) (I have a way of really getting into my books. I tend to place myself in the story, instead of the outside looking in perspective.)

I am sure there are many fans, adult and child alike, angry at that turn of events.

So people who are saying Snape is evil..lets hear your theories!

Cassandra

[Pete Hanlin]

I get pretty engrossed in a book's plot as well. When I finished "The Partner," by Grisham, I actually threw the book across the room in my angst. I mean, after all he went through, she took all the money!!!

Dumbledore appearing in the portrait was a rather ominous sign to me as well. In the interest of maintaining my sanity, however, I will hold out the hope that he makes a miraculous return.

Aside from Treasure Island, the other books I enjoyed immensely as a kid were Robinson Crusoe (there was an outstanding article about this book in the Smithstonian recently- or maybe it was National Geographic- one of the two anyway), and Sherlock Holmes. I read the entire series of Holmes mysteries TWICE over the years between age 13 and 16. I still reread some of my favorites from time to time!

[coda]

I think Cassandra's theory is mostly right; Dumbledore is dead (as evidenced by: breaking of the spell on Harry, Snape's continued existance, etc) Snape killed him, Dumbledore argued Snape into doing it but I think the motiviation is wrong. Dumbledore didn't simply want Snape not to die but rather (though that was a motivating factor) but more that he didn't want Malfoy to kill him.

First, remember that the most powerful magic of all is love. Presuming Snape told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow then Dumbledore knew that one or the other (Snape or Dumbledore) would have to die. While Dumbledore doesn't want to die he is, almost perforce, more disinclined to have Snape die, this means Dumbledore must die. In an effort to keep Malfoy from being lost completely to Voldemort Dumbledore is desperate not to allow Malfoy to kill him. Hence Dumbledore's pleading with Snape on the tower was not for his own life, and only secondarily for Snape's, but to save Malfoy's soul.

I believe the biggest arguement for Snape's goodness is the final encounter between Snape and Harry on the lawn as Snape is fleeing. Clearly Snape could have captured Harry and delivered him to Voldemort if he had wanted to but not only didn't he do that but he even continued to 'train' Harry during the 'duel' by telling him how to improve his fighting skills.

Cassandra, I couldn't believe it either, I finished the book in the early hours of this morning and was simply shocked. I'm not ashamed to say that I cried. It's interesting, I don't think that the writting is particularly good and the plot is a little trite (though it is a children's book) but these defecits pale in comparison to Ms. Rowling's stellar ability to create and develop characters with whome the read truely connects.

Incidentally, if you haven't discovered it yet you may well enjoy Ms. Rowling's personal website: www.jkrowling.com

[Pete Hanlin]

Wow- extremely well thought out. I thought the incident with Snape and Harry at the end of the book was significant as well. I believe Snape is going to be a significant factor in Harry's final conflict with Voldemort. He'll hold the ability to turn the tide one way or the other, and he'll side with Harry.

I'm wondering if there might be some further resolutions once Voldemort is finally dead and gone- perhaps some folks will return to life or something like that to provide a happy ending (i.e., I sincerely hope Ms. Rowling remembers this is a children's series and provides some sort of cheery ending- if book six were the final volume, I would have been more upset).

[coda]

Wow- extremely well thought out. I thought the incident with Snape and Harry at the end of the book was significant as well. I believe Snape is going to be a significant factor in Harry's final conflict with Voldemort. He'll hold the ability to turn the tide one way or the other, and he'll side with Harry.

I'm wondering if there might be some further resolutions once Voldemort is finally dead and gone- perhaps some folks will return to life or something like that to provide a happy ending (i.e., I sincerely hope Ms. Rowling remembers this is a children's series and provides some sort of cheery ending- if book six were the final volume, I would have been more upset).

Thanks Pete, coming from you that's a nice compliment. I agree that Snape will play a significant roll in the next book, one where he teeters on the edge of damnation or redemption (secretly revealing he was a good guy all along). I also expect he'll die saving Harry from Voldemort somewhere around the mid point of book seven.

Am I the only one who thinks that JK will have a hard time drawing together all the various plot strings in one single installment? I envision a massive (larger than Phoenix) final volume. Even then there may be strings left dangling which leads me to.....

Wouldn't it be nice if JK continued working with the world she's created with a second series, possibly aimed at a more mature audience?

[ikon44]

i think snape is going to turn out to be good, at various points in the books dumbledore has told harry that he trusts snape. also if snape was a villain i dont think JK would have shown him to be a deatheater at the start of HBP, it would make more dramatic sense for us to be unsure of his affilliations right up to the moment when he appeared to kill dumbledore.

[Spexvet]

Had to wait for two of my kids to read it first.

Snape - good guy - I have to trust Dumbledor's judgement. I think that he is conflicted - he hated Harry's father, and, by proxy, Harry, but he is on the same side as Harry on the Voldemort issue. I agree that the last scene with Snape indicates that Snape is trying to help Harry.
Dumbledor - dead - portrait in headmaster's office & breaking of the spell on Harry are proof. I agree that Dumbledor knew/wanted it to happen. I also think that Dumbledor would have had some magic to override the unbreakable vow, perhaps he even did (Snape was in his room when Draco got to the top of the tower), yet allowed himself to die, anyway. Dumbledor will continue to guide Harry from the portrait.

Was it just me, or did anyone interpret this book as an allegory of today's geopolitical situation? Voldemort = Bin Laden. The first scene could easily have been about a suicide bomber. The poisoned meade and necklace were terrorist attacks on "civilians". Innocent people being unjustly incarcerated. The Ministry/government "fighting fire with fire" while the scholar tries to win the conflict by learning all he can to understand Voldemort/Bin Laden.