Frame Product Knowledge ???

[GOS_Queen]

In our store meeting last night, LC just rolled out some new frame product cards but truthfully, they have a lot of "fluff" not any "meat". My co-workers & I were excited to get SOMETHING but the information on the cards is just not anything that we don't already know (and I happen to know more about some of the lines that what is listed :hammer: ). We are asked about quality of titanium offered, layers of frame coatings, hinge designs etc.

Just wondering how I can get some product knowledge information ?? (and no, WE at store level do not get vendor reps visiting us ... :finger: )

* H * E * L * P * ... is there a way to find out anything ???


Karen

[drk]

If you find out, please post your resources for the rest of us...

[Chris Ryser]

Just wondering how I can get some product knowledge information ?? (and no, WE at store level do not get vendor reps visiting us ... :finger:

Karen

This one belongs into the OPTICAL HALL OF SHAME............................

The captive fancy chain of Lens Crafters does not properly instruct their employees in frame material knowdlege.

The owners who are a first class frame manufacturer should have more respect than having sell their own emplyoees products on which they have a minimal material instruction.

[Snitgirl]

In our store meeting last night, LC just rolled out some new frame product cards but truthfully, they have a lot of "fluff" not any "meat". My co-workers & I were excited to get SOMETHING but the information on the cards is just not anything that we don't already know (and I happen to know more about some of the lines that what is listed :hammer: ). We are asked about quality of titanium offered, layers of frame coatings, hinge designs etc.

Just wondering how I can get some product knowledge information ?? (and no, WE at store level do not get vendor reps visiting us ... :finger: )

* H * E * L * P * ... is there a way to find out anything ???


Karen

Which product lines are you needing specs on?

[Chris Ryser]

If you find out, please post your resources for the rest of us...

drk, you have the freedom to see reps and pick their brains..........which is why they come to see you. If you get any that have nothing to give in exchange for a purchase, ignore them.

[GOS_Queen]

I found some great informational articals on www.visioncareproducts.com about titanium eyewear. :D

Karen

[GOS_Queen]

Which product lines are you needing specs on?

Well, sadly, just about anything we sell ...

For example, the card for Sferoflex says "patented sferolfex spring hinge technology" . I DID learn from a sferoflex rep years ago that stopped by our store (while in the market to visit his "real" clients) ... that what makes it special is a "compression ball bearing" spring hinge. We asked for more details but he declined saying that we are "competition". :hammer:

These are things I have heard/learned while in the business (only God knows if they are true)

* zyl materials are made with UV protection so that the color wears well and the frame lasts longer ...

* special "lux lock" eyewire screw that resists backing out ...

* 30 layer coating for corrosion resistance - gold & palladium ...

Who knows ... maybe I should give up ... and go with the flow !!! :hammer:

Karen :(

[GOS_Queen]

This one belongs into the OPTICAL HALL OF SHAME............................

The captive fancy chain of Lens Crafters does not properly instruct their employees in frame material knowdlege.

The owners who are a first class frame manufacturer should have more respect than having sell their own emplyoees products on which they have a minimal material instruction.

Chris -

Truthfully, I am embarrassed to come here and ask for help but it was apparent at our meeting that I am not the only one that is wanting some real information. I am seeking information so that I can help educate my fellow associates.

Karen :o

[drk]

Chris, you are qualified to answer this question, and so is Jerry Huang.

Seriously, since I don't know:
What are the main issues with frame quality?

Potential issues I can think of:

Metal:

Type of metal alloy used
Type of welding used
Type of finishing method used
Quality of gadgetry applied: spring hinge, regular hinge, etc.

Design features:
"Monoblock" (which I think is where there is a tongue-in-groove fit on the eyewire screw piece?)

That design where the eyewire and spring hinge screw has to be put in together to get the eyewire to close.

Plastic

Type of zyl used: cellulose acetate, "SPX", "Grylamid", "Optyl", nylon
Method of coloration?
Method of lamination?


This is too exhaustive, but which of these factors are more important than others?

Even if we ask the right questions, how do we get the right answers?

How can we focus on quality when we don't know what it involves?

[misunderstood]

Since most of what you're selling at LC is Luxottica product all you need to know is that most of Luxottica's frames are pure crap.....if you want what's best for your customers tell them to go somewhere where they sell quality frames.....like anywhere except a chain store........

In our store meeting last night, LC just rolled out some new frame product cards but truthfully, they have a lot of "fluff" not any "meat". My co-workers & I were excited to get SOMETHING but the information on the cards is just not anything that we don't already know (and I happen to know more about some of the lines that what is listed :hammer: ). We are asked about quality of titanium offered, layers of frame coatings, hinge designs etc.

Just wondering how I can get some product knowledge information ?? (and no, WE at store level do not get vendor reps visiting us ... :finger: )

* H * E * L * P * ... is there a way to find out anything ???


Karen

[GOS_Queen]

Since most of what you're selling at LC is Luxottica product all you need to know is that most of Luxottica's frames are pure crap.....if you want what's best for your customers tell them to go somewhere where they sell quality frames.....like anywhere except a chain store........

Misunderstood - While I appreciate the apparent fervor and zest with which you posted your comments, :drop: I would appreciate it and respectfully request we could keep this thread on topic and NOT turn it into (another) Luxottica ~ bashing, hate ~ spewing thread. :finger:


Karen :angry:

[GOS_Queen]

Thank you for this comment - this is the type of information I am looking for.

Karen

Chris, you are qualified to answer this question, and so is Jerry Huang.

Seriously, since I don't know:
What are the main issues with frame quality?

Potential issues I can think of:

Metal:

Type of metal alloy used
Type of welding used
Type of finishing method used
Quality of gadgetry applied: spring hinge, regular hinge, etc.

Design features:
"Monoblock" (which I think is where there is a tongue-in-groove fit on the eyewire screw piece?)

That design where the eyewire and spring hinge screw has to be put in together to get the eyewire to close.

Plastic

Type of zyl used: cellulose acetate, "SPX", "Grylamid", "Optyl", nylon

Method of coloration?
Method of lamination?


This is too exhaustive, but which of these factors are more important than others?

Even if we ask the right questions, how do we get the right answers?

How can we focus on quality when we don't know what it involves?

[Lawrence Yau]

This one belongs into the OPTICAL HALL OF SHAME............................

The captive fancy chain of Lens Crafters does not properly instruct their employees in frame material knowdlege.

The owners who are a first class frame manufacturer should have more respect than having sell their own emplyoees products on which they have a minimal material instruction.

I believe Lens Crafters will change it in the future. Product knowledge for the employee is very important. My previous boss alway emphasizes on it.

First of all, employee need to know the some terms about the frame.
What is panto angle, temple, trim, hinge, spring hinge, core wire, temple tip, nose pad..etc?

Secondly, employee need to learn the characteristic of each materials.
I think employee need to learn at least some basic.

For example, Zyl may discolor if exposure to hot and it may discolor after several years. Titanium is light weight material and Aluminum can be as light as titanium. Or if selling in USA. You need to know the standard requested in USA.

For the quality issue, I think empolyee can imagine you are the client entering the shop. What are the problems you will ask? For example of acetate frame, if over polished, the thickness of endpiece wont match that of the temple.

I dont know whether there is a optician or some professional person in each LC shop. If yes, the employee can ask them. You can get knowledge by asking right question and by experience.

I just know little and most of knowledge is from asking question. It seem that there is no website talking about the frame in detail. Most of them is incomplete. GOS_Queen, You can browse www.eyecaresource.com to see some basic information. For more information, you can dig in the web or ask in here. There are many professional here and they will help you.;)

Have a nice day.
Lawrence

[Chris Ryser]

Chris, you are qualified to answer this question, and so is Jerry Huang.

drk, thanks for the compliment. However you are asking me to write a book here on the optiboard. Some day I will answer your questions little by little.

Kasein, used by the italians in rge old days (40s+50s) <ade from dairy by products. Hard to work with. had not much flexibilty

Cellulose Nitrate
Used in the 30s to 50s. Was beautiful to work with. You could make a square frame from a round one. Would dry out within 2 years become brittle. Could fuse broken frames with acerone to invisibe seams. HIGHLY FLAMMABLE. Got prohibited in the USA at the end of the 50s early 60s.

Rhoptics
A dislikes material used by the french which gave the french manufacturers bad name for crappy frames. Was hard to work with. Could not be repaired easily Mid 50s to early 60s.

Cellulose Acetate
Finally a good product came up in the early 60s and was here to stau. It is non flammabe, made in colored sheets. Is nice to work with. Does not dry out and is still usable after years of wear and tear.


Propyonate frames:
Are injection molded and then surface tinted for coloring

Optyl frames:
Are injection molded colored within the material

Both materials are very sensitive to work with

[GOS_Queen]

Can anyone tell me about the differences in how frame finishes are coated/plated ?

What makes a "good" frame different from a "great" frame ?

Thanks ~

Karen

[Chris Ryser]

Can anyone tell me about the differences in how frame finishes are coated/plated ?

What makes a "good" frame different from a "great" frame ?

In the old ays you had only G/F gold filled or RP gold rolled frames. There were also some nickel plated ones done with electro plating. Nickel oxydises easily and attracts dirt.

In the 60's they started to electroplate just about everything and anything with many types of coloring. That is whay you get today......the layer is about one micron thick.

This is actually a matter of who means it or who say's it.

1) In my book a good frame means high quality, sturdy and lasting.

2) A great frame is a good looking frame not necessary a good frame as in .........1)

[drk]

That proprietary SPX stuff is fantastic, as well as Optyl, in my opinion. See a lot of proprionate, but the standard is cellulose acetate.

SPX and Optyl seem to hold their form very much more than CA, and the color and translucence are everlasting, apparently. I think they are clearly superior.

What's the tangible difference, if any, between proprionate and CA?

[drk]

I would like to understand the electroplating/coloring process better. If they apply such a minimal layer, to avoid scratching it seems they apply an exterior "hard-shell-like" coating.

What I see from my experience is that lesser quality frames will lose the finish way sooner than a better frame. Not to mention this Italian frame company by name, but I feel they do a generally poorer job of finishing frames, as I see color coming off much sooner than I'd expect.

I think, Chris, that you have an after-market product that helps with this problem. How would an average (dispensing-only/non-lab) practice take advantage of this feature?

[Chris Ryser]

.

What's the tangible difference, if any, between proprionate and CA?

Proprionate frames came on the market in the mid 70s. They are injection moulded, which means once you have machined the different size molds, the frame parts can be spit out of the machine by the thousands. Therefore it makes it a high profit item for the manufacturer whoever it is. The same goes for Optyl.

Anything that is injection molded is called mass production that is totally not labour intensive. The hopper brings the resin to the pump that injects the material, the flap opens and out comes a rack of 2 to 6 item connected by thin rods that are broken off. The same goes for Polycarbonate lenses where thousands can be made in a day.

Cellulose Acetate is made in sheets. The rough shape of the frame is stamped out and then machined to its proper shape and size. The they go into polishing drums which contain wooden marbles of different sizes. The larger size marbeles are first then it goes into drums with smaller sixe marbles until finally polished to the maximum. Takes many hours. Cellulose acetate frames are still crafted frames and are labour intensive.

[William Walker]

After taking a continuing ed class from Prof Ed August (An awesome professor), I seem to remember there being 5 reasons why titanium is (justifiably) a more expensive frame material than standard metals. (Hopefully, I can name them all):

1) Titanium is more rare than standard alloys (drives cost up)
2) Being a stronger material, to form it requires replacing the tooling used in manufacturing 5 times faster than tooling used in standard metals.
3) It is more expensive to soldier. Titanium cannot be soldiered in an oxygen filled environment - it must be done in helium.
4) If a mistake is made in manufacturing, titanium canot simply be melted down, and reused - it must be tossed.
5) I can't remember #5, but now that I am finding out that I forgot the 5th reason, I'll look for it, and add it to this thread.

Hope some of this helps

[Chris Ryser]

I think, Chris, that you have an after-market product that helps with this problem. How would an average (dispensing-only/non-lab) practice take advantage of this feature?

Actually it is a highly concentrated polysiloxane that creates a formidable barrier angainst any chemicals, from plain water to acids and solvents. When a surface is sealed off, nothing will creep under the applied coating and it will protect the frame to last many times over the normal life span. As polysiloxane belong to the silicone family (sand) which one of the most earthly and natural items, it is also anti allergenic. When applied to nose pads and temple tips or plastic frames, they will not discolor or go milky white, due to facial acids.

You just apply a drop on a paper tissue and spread it over the intended area, wait a few minutes and the buff it with a clean tissue.

I purchased a US Army regulation bugle from the civil war in an antique store 16 years ago. It was all oxydised and black. I cleaned and buffed it and the applied the stuff on it...............16 years later it still shows no new oxydation only a loss of shine.

[rolandclaur]

hey gos queen.. why are you embarrased to come here and ask a question? I'm not so sure why you said that.. I definetly am not embarassed to come here. haha i even have my full real name here!!

[Chris Ryser]

hey gos queen.. why are you embarrased to come here and ask a question? I'm not so sure why you said that.. I definetly am not embarassed to come here. haha i even have my full real name here!!

I understand that some posters do not use their real names because they not want to put their job on the line if they dont agree with their bosses or corporation poylicies.

But the ones that can afford and be safe from job prosecution, by using their real names, add more value to their post's.

[Jason Carruthers]

Chris, probably most with real name are self-employed, and most aliases have a boss.

[JERRY HUANG]

Chris,

Where can I find resin pellets supplier for Cellulose Acetate in US?? I want to extude my own Zyl sheet (10 pounds for each color) here just for fun instead of importing minimum order of 30 KGs per color from overseas!

Thanks

Jerry