Non-Affiliated Optical

[Aarlan]

I know some first class opticians who work for LensCrafters. I don't know why, but they do. This lapse in judgement does not interfere with their optician skills - even when Evil Empire policy does. ;) :D :p

It can diminish their overall optical product knowledge, however (Unless they spend there spare time browsing Optiboard :D ), since they are limited to a handful of lens designs, coatings, and products. They do not have unfettered access to Trivex, 1.67 Trans, Most Prog Designs (inc Office designs), many different types of coating (foundation and various A/Rs), or many different frame vendors, etc, etc. Not a knock, but I found it very limiting in that regard...
(LC doesnt' owe me a thing after 10 very rewarding years there, so this isn't a knock on LC. I simply found that my professional philosophy differed from theirs too often to stay.)

AA

[NC-OD]

I've been reading this and had to respond.
I am an OD with 2 offices also.

NC-OD, if you want to stay in business, you'll need to sell glasses.
!

I couldn't let this one go.

Of course an OD can make a very good living without being an eyeglass prostitute. Hell, here in NC, we even get paid $120 for a Mediciad exam......and goes up from there. Refractions are $50.

It's true that if you have an inferiority complex and give away $55 exams, it will be hard without suckering everyone into AR/progressives.

You just have to know how to code and bill properly and put the emphasis on the much needed eye disease segment.

[jtart2]

In a saturated market, like where I am located, one does not have the opportunity to see enough $120 eye exams to cover the cost of running a business. With insurances like VSP, Eyemed, SVP, Opticare, etc, it is not possible to make enough money only performing eye exams.

Most patients do not come to an optometrist's office (at least not here) seeking medical attention. There is little money in contact lenses, so a large source of revenue is selling glasses.

"Prostituting" is such an over-used word in our profession. I don't think selling something that will help someone with their vision is "Prostitution", especially if your doing it honorably. Comments like that will upset a lot of opticians on this forum!:angry:

I believe you could be doing much better than you are if you would spend more time discussing options and selling glasses to your patients instead of opening the door and asking them to go right ahead to Wal-Mart. The independent OD will lose more and more to the big optical chains if this continues, and before long, we'll all be working at Sam's Club or Lenscrafters because we don't compete or differentiate ourselves from the mass merchants.

As more and more patients purchase vision insurance, you are going to see your profit margins on eye exams and office visits shrink, just like we do in larger towns. At that point you will have to pay more attention to your sales. And don't think it won't happen.

Anyway it's late, I've got to get up tomorrow and "prostitute" myself a little!:D
Later, Joe

[For-Life]

So OD's over saturated the market and complain that they are now not making enough money?

As for hard selling glasses and "suckering people" into PAL's and AR, I do not see why you have to do that. I never hard sell and have never suckered people into anything. I use PAL's and AR because I know they are a better way of doing things.

I never had to hard sell, just be honest and helpful. I use my intergrity and intelligence. I do well.

[drballen]

For-Life,
OD's themselves have absolutely no control overt the number of graduating OD's. Schools do not listen to market analysis, they will take on more students if they think they can do so profitably. Several new OD schools have been propsed in the past year, all have been opposed by practicing OD's, but schools do not get their money from practicing OD's, they get it from students and governments.
This has been a major bone of contention amongst practicing OD's for some time. The other side of the arguement is that if there are not enough OD's graduating then no one will be willing to purchase an existing practice, as they can just open up cold and be busy in no time at all. So how you view the number of new grads depends a lot on where you are in your practice cycle.
Brent

[For-Life]

For-Life,
OD's themselves have absolutely no control overt the number of graduating OD's. Schools do not listen to market analysis, they will take on more students if they think they can do so profitably. Several new OD schools have been propsed in the past year, all have been opposed by practicing OD's, but schools do not get their money from practicing OD's, they get it from students and governments.
This has been a major bone of contention amongst practicing OD's for some time. The other side of the arguement is that if there are not enough OD's graduating then no one will be willing to purchase an existing practice, as they can just open up cold and be busy in no time at all. So how you view the number of new grads depends a lot on where you are in your practice cycle.
Brent

No, but you do have control over what field you go into.

[fvc2020]

Howdy all

I was really amazed that no other optician came out "punching" other than the wonderful Karen, about the bad mouthing of our profession. After reading his/her comments about what I do and do well, I was really miffed. I started thinking about it and then rememebered that I handed Darryl's Master Exam to my doctor and as much as I love her to death, she couldn't answer 1/4 of the questions. So it takes nothing to do our job? Well I bet that, the fair doctor could do no better than mine:D

I didn't think this question was going to come down to bad mouthing each other, and we have gotten off topic with comments like those.

Just my ten cents

Christina

[shellrob]

I feel the same way you do Christina and could say a lot of things on the subject, but the fact is, you can't change ignorrance.

[Chris Ryser]

In a saturated market, like where I am located, one does not have the opportunity to see enough $120 eye exams to cover the cost of running a business. With insurances like VSP, Eyemed, SVP, Opticare, etc, it is not possible to make enough money only performing eye exams.

So why don;t you start getting your fingers dirty and start doing all the extras like UV, tint and scratch resistant on your premsises instead of giving it all to the manufacturers in finished lenses.
You could make an extra mmmm Dollars in your pocket and purchase the lenses for quite a few bucks less.

[GOS_Queen]

I know some first class opticians who work for LensCrafters. I don't know why, but they do. This lapse in judgement does not interfere with their optician skills - even when Evil Empire policy does. ;) :D :p

I'm finding that when you have years of experience in the Evil Empire, people aren't exactly welcoming with open arms ...

Karen

[GOS_Queen]

It can diminish their overall optical product knowledge, however (Unless they spend there spare time browsing Optiboard :D ), since they are limited to a handful of lens designs, coatings, and products. They do not have unfettered access to Trivex, 1.67 Trans, Most Prog Designs (inc Office designs), many different types of coating (foundation and various A/Rs), or many different frame vendors, etc, etc. Not a knock, but I found it very limiting in that regard...

AA

yes, it does limit optical product knowledge! (sigh) having tried to keep myself eductated on what's out there (yes, by optiboard ... I love it & recommend it every chance I get ... :cheers: and by various trade journals, and talking to my friends that have successfully "escaped" and are in private optical "heaven":p )

of course, I find that the more I learn about what really exists, the more "dangerous" I am ... LOL. Truthfully, I don't care if I scare the pants off my Lab Manager ... ;)

Karen

[GOS_Queen]

No, but you do have control over what field you go into.

I recently ran into a young man that had spent some time shadowing the Dr's next door. I asked him how things were going and he said that he had changed his mind about what field he was going into. I asked him what he chose instead and he said "dentistry". He thought the hours were better and the potential was better. I thought for a moment and told him that I thought he made a good decision. He was a little shocked to hear me say that! I explained that before I came into optical I was a dental assistant and that if I knew then what I know now, I would have stayed in dental (probably would have become a hygenist).

Karen :o

[GOS_Queen]

I couldn't let this one go.

Of course an OD can make a very good living without being an eyeglass prostitute.
It's true that if you have an inferiority complex and give away $55 exams, it will be hard without suckering everyone into AR/progressives.

Excuse me ??? Eyeglass prostitute ??? Assisting patients with making great, intelligent, informed choices about eyewear does NOT make one an eyeglass prostitute any more than employing an optician makes one a PIMP . :angry: I, sir, do NOT "sucker" anyone ...I educate them.


Karen :finger:

[NC-OD]

Excuse me ??? Eyeglass prostitute ??? Assisting patients with making great, intelligent, informed choices about eyewear does NOT make one an eyeglass prostitute any more than employing an optician makes one a PIMP . :angry: I, sir, do NOT "sucker" anyone ...I educate them.


Karen :finger:

GOS-Queen,

Actually, I was speaking of ODs and OMDs. We were talking about not being able to make a living as an OD without selling glasses. I've seen far too many use bully tactics and "white coat syndrome" to intimidate people into buying expensive glasses. And the BOGO sales signs in the window are tacky, tacky, tacky for any professional, in my opinion. Of course, the commercial places use other silly and tacky tactics. Thus is the nature of the optical business I suppose. But that's another thread.....:)

[chip anderson]

Wow!


But one wonders why the O.D. can't make a living at $120.00 per exam scheduling four per hour. This works out to $3,840.00 per 8 hr. day. Even with paying some receptionist and an assistant, rent, phones etc. one should be able to make a go of this. Not to mention if the doctor practices medicine.


Chip
Now where would he get the patients? From all the independent opticians who would be overjoyed to have him around. It's called symbiosis.

[NC-OD]

Wow!


But one wonders why the O.D. can't make a living at $120.00 per exam scheduling four per hour. This works out to $3,840.00 per 8 hr. day. Even with paying some receptionist and an assistant, rent, phones etc. one should be able to make a go of this. Not to mention if the doctor practices medicine.


Chip
Now where would he get the patients? From all the independent opticians who would be overjoyed to have him around. It's called symbiosis.

This is a great scenerio. But there are no more (or very few) independent opticians left (around here at least). I heard about them once (like the dinosaurs). I'd love to be in a community like you describe. As it is, most ODs struggle to fill their books and resort to accepting low paying vision exams. I think most would be thrilled to see 4 good paying patients per hour all day, every day.

Like I said in my original post. I'd be more than happy to give up all the optical I do if it was feasible. And I still think the super-saturated ECP market is what is causing many to lose their cool sometimes.

In 1975, we had about 4-5 ODs and a few OMDs. Today, 30 years later, we have 35 ODs and 12 OMDs.......and the population hasn't grow THAT much. No whining here. Just a little bit of an explanation for my colleagues eagerness/need/desire to sell, sell, sell.

I had a friend try to schedule an appointment with one of our overbooked Internists recently. They had to do a credit check on her to see if they would 'allow' her to become a new patient. How about them apples;)

[Judy Canty]

This is a great scenerio. But there are no more (or very few) independent opticians left (around here at least).

Gee, I wonder why?

[For-Life]

I got a better solution to everything.

Come and move to Canada. In my city if you could be booked full.


Even a better suggestion. Come buy me out. We will dispense, you can do the exams. We are ethical, and you would get the owners profits.

[NC-OD]

Gee, I wonder why?

I don't know. I'm sure everyone will blame everyone else.

ODs sell too many glasses hurting Opticians. OMDs sell too many glasses hurting both ODs and OMDs. ODs want treat too much eye disease taking business away from OMDs. OMDs put in opticals hurting both ODs and opticians. Internists steer their referrals to OMDs instead of ODs.

Walmart, Costco, Lenscrafters etc.....got on the bandwagon and realized that the 300% mark up of the O's on glasses was too good to pass up, hurting us all.

Too many ODs and Opticians slut themselves out to the commerical stores.

Pediatricians, Internists, PA's, NP's treating every red eye condition, hurts ODs and OMDs.

Medicare cutting cataract surgery fees from $2,000 to $650 hurt OMDs.

Superior Vision and the like plans paying $35 for an eye exam hurts the knucklehead ECPs that accept them.

And then we have to vast right wing conspiricy in the words of our future first woman president.......(ahhhhh............I shudder thinking about that).

Did I cover it all?:D

[chip anderson]

We are all shuddering at the thought of your first woman president. (Ain't neva gonna happen, even if Bush starts a whole new war..)

[opticman]

OK, I think I have sat quite long enough and now I must voice my opinion. I have been a licensed optician in New York since 1973 with a BA in Business and an Assocates degree in Ophthalmic dispensing. I learned to be a quality oriented optician by working side by side with experience opticians that helped me learn the profession. I invested quite a bit of money to open my first practice. I remember sending customers to the local optometrist that needed
an examination but never received a dime from the O.D. (not even a thank you).
Get over it! When you are willing to cover the cost of new lenses due to your recorrection of the Rx you gave to a customer that may have been to strong, then come over to me and let's talk about you sharing in the business that I invested money and time in.

[NC-OD]

OK, I think I have sat quite long enough and now I must voice my opinion. I have been a licensed optician in New York since 1973 with a BA in Business and an Assocates degree in Ophthalmic dispensing. I learned to be a quality oriented optician by working side by side with experience opticians that helped me learn the profession. I invested quite a bit of money to open my first practice. I remember sending customers to the local optometrist that needed
an examination but never received a dime from the O.D. (not even a thank you).
Get over it! When you are willing to cover the cost of new lenses due to your recorrection of the Rx you gave to a customer that may have been to strong, then come over to me and let's talk about you sharing in the business that I invested money and time in.

That sounds like a personal problem between you and the OD (and probably a common one). I would have "scractched your back", sent you a birthday card and probably even a Christmas present. I also cover the cost of any redos that are my fault.

But if you know anything at all about refracting people, more times than not, it is the patient's fault as there is alot of psychology associated with the "art and science" of refracting. I'm afraid that many people think it's always a simple, cut and dry process (sometimes it is). The older they are, the trickier they get, in my opinion. There are alot of factors in play (again psychology being the biggest). THEY (patients) chose what they like and we Rx what they choose based on the best of our knowledge and ability. Sometimes they choose wrong or either see better one day than they do the next. Not uncommon. Dry eyes, cataracts, humidity, low I.Q., high I.Q. (engineers) and yes, rushing, hurried docs. And don't forget the patients with screaming babies on their lap as we try to refract them and the ones that see "too well" with their new glasses.:hammer:

Patients should really being paying for their redos most time. But we are gutless to demand it.

P.S. I've referred to ODs as well.........and very rarely received a thank you either. I think it's just tacky behavior as a human being moreso than being a doc.

[Aarlan]

...more times than not, it is the patient's fault as there is alot of psychology associated with the "art and science" of refracting. I'm afraid that many people think it's always a simple, cut and dry process (sometimes it is). The older they are, the trickier they get, in my opinion. There are alot of factors in play (again psychology being the biggest). THEY (patients) chose what they like and we Rx what they choose based on the best of our knowledge and ability. Sometimes they choose wrong or either see better one day than they do the next. Not uncommon. Dry eyes, cataracts, humidity, low I.Q., high I.Q. (engineers) and yes, rushing, hurried docs.

True in the case of a good refractionist, but I've met a fair number of Docs (MDs and a few ODs) who couldn't refract with an instruction manual. To blame it on the patients may be true in your case, if they are relatively rare, but there are some refractionists that have a better chance of getting hit by lightning in their exam room before they could perform an accurate refraction. (Especially with some MDs whose techs autorefract and sign away)

AA

[Aarlan]

Thank goodness in our area most of the Docs (esp MDs) have a higher success rate than some other areas where I've worked in the past.


AA

[jtart2]

NC-OD hit the nail on the head.

If you ask a patient "which is better, one or two?" and the patient says "two", how is that the OD or MD's fault. I've seen too many cases where the patient's SRx one day is different from the day before and I have to pay to remake the glasses, by the way Chris, I do my own edging and tinting!

Also, the older the patient, the more problems with the SRx. Older folks tend to have poorer vision and many have bad attitudes. They are very hard to please. In the exam room their pupils are slightly dilated so they take more plus power. In the light of day, their pupils are smaller and they don't want the extra plus power you measure.

It takes a long time to become good at refractions and perfecting the "art", but even the best refractionist cannot nail all Srx's 100% of the time.

Sometimes, if I know the SRx came from an MD's office, I'll re-refract the patient just so I don't have to eat the cost of a SRx that won't work! Technicians don't know how to refract!:hammer: