Designer Frames versus Generic "Retail' Frames

[rolandclaur]

I'm sure this thread has probably been started earlier in this forum.. But what are your guys' opinion on the this topic. Do designer frames that demand their prices really be of such high quality craftmanship and materials? How does a Ti-flex Marchon frame at Wal-mart compare to the 'higher' end frames at other places? I spoke with a pretty knowledgeable salesman at a sunglass optical warehouse and he basically told me that when it comes to sunglasses like Christian Dior, Chanel, Prada, all you are paying for is the designer label and the power of the logo recognition. All in all, is "Made in Italy" that much more better than "Made in China" ?

[Chris Ryser]

All in all, is "Made in Italy" that much more better than "Made in China" ?

95 % of all fra,es are made somehwere in the far east. The difference is usually only the brand name and the price.
Of course therte are some quality issues as with any other products. But the old idea that it is better when coming from Europe is dead/

[rolandclaur]

so most of the frames that are labeled "made in italy" are really made in china? or is that monicker mean that made in italy is really the materials are made in italy?

[DocInChina]

so most of the frames that are labeled "made in italy" are really made in china? or is that monicker mean that made in italy is really the materials are made in italy?

Made in Italy can mean:

1) assembled or partially completed in Italy
2) Materials from Italy
3) Most of the materials from Italy
4) 100% Made in Italy (possible)
5) The person in Italy doing the QC of the eyewear coming in from China. :D

Typically, the eyewear made in China for the brand name companies is better made. This also goes for clothing, electronics, sneakers, etc. Nike, Addidas, Puma, KSwiss, New Balance all contract out to other companies here to produce their product. In essence the big brand names are marketing/design companies outsourcing their work. When I was in the states last year I bought 2 pair of New Balance (made in China). I also bought similar product in China and the quality was the same to me as what I bought in the states. The same goes for eyewear.

Doc

[Mikef]

Made in Italy can mean:

1) assembled or partially completed in Italy
2) Materials from Italy
3) Most of the materials from Italy
4) 100% Made in Italy (possible)
5) The person in Italy doing the QC of the eyewear coming in from China. :D

Typically, the eyewear made in China for the brand name companies is better made. This also goes for clothing, electronics, sneakers, etc. Nike, Addidas, Puma, KSwiss, New Balance all contract out to other companies here to produce their product. In essence the big brand names are marketing/design companies outsourcing their work. When I was in the states last year I bought 2 pair of New Balance (made in China). I also bought similar product in China and the quality was the same to me as what I bought in the states. The same goes for eyewear.

Doc

NO!

If is says made in Italy the frame has to go though what is called a major transformation!

Paint!
Sun lenses!
Etc.
Assembled does not count!

95% of all frames are not made in China! If go to Italy you will find that many of the factories are still open and very busy!

Much of the China plastic frames are made from Italian Zyl!

Brands Names: In any brand name you are paying for the name. But I think most people know that and buy it anyway!

[DocInChina]

NO! If is says made in Italy the frame has to go though what is called a major transformation!
Paint!
Sun lenses!
Etc.
Assembled does not count! 95% of all frames are not made in China! If go to Italy you will find that many of the factories are still open and very busy! Much of the China plastic frames are made from Italian Zyl! Brands Names: In any brand name you are paying for the name. But I think most people know that and buy it anyway!

Mikef, as I said the materials can be made in Italy. I am afraid I must disagree with you regards to your unequivocal no. I live and conduct business in China and am well aware who manufactures which product/brands here. That does not mean all the models for all the brands are made here but certainly many are produced in China. This in no way lessens the value of the product. Lux, Safilo, Marchon and others all make or have made excellent product. In no way am I trying to say otherwise and if I came across that way I do apologize.

Doc

[Mikef]

Mikef, as I said the materials can be made in Italy. I am afraid I must disagree with you regards to your unequivocal no. I live and conduct business in China and am well aware who manufactures which product/brands here. That does not mean all the models for all the brands are made here but certainly many are produced in China. This in no way lessens the value of the product. Lux, Safilo, Marchon and others all make or have made excellent product. In no way am I trying to say otherwise and if I came across that way I do apologize.

Doc

Doc,

The Law is that a frame must go through a major transformation! This is not just a guess this is fact! DO all companies obey the Law???? Who knows!

I think you will find many Lux, Safilo, Marchon say made in China, Many say Made in Italy as well.

I should not have put the NO in though!

[DocInChina]

Doc,
The Law is that a frame must go through a major transformation! This is not just a guess this is fact! DO all companies obey the Law???? Who knows!
I think you will find many Lux, Safilo, Marchon say made in China, Many say Made in Italy as well. I should not have put the NO in though!

Mike,
You and I (and many others in this forum) subscribe to an ethics that does not necessarily transcend to other parts of the world. If a country would sell nuclear arms, weapons or make profits for oil kickbacks where would stamping the wrong country of origin fall in the worlds moral barometer?

As I said, I hope you nor anyone else take my words as a personal attack because it is definitely not.

Doc

[impact500]

Mikef is totally correct and anyone traveling the Belluno region knows it. That stated, the amount of production is down and the region is suffering and China is growing rapidly. But the major brand names are still truly made in Italy. For LUX 85% of product for licensed names are still made there for example. LUX's house names are made outside of Italy to an overwhelming degree, however.

Safilo as one example, sold 28 million frames (majority sunglasses) in 2004. The latest data I find shows 58% of Safilo's product made outside of Italy.

Also note that the US is an exception in country of origin marking laws. The big firms sell worldwide. They can tilt their sourcing mix according to where a given product will be sold. The mix of product sold in the US that is truly made in Italy may be higher than the mix of product sold elsewhere.

If anyone suspects a falsely marked country of origin. Contact US Customs. They do take it seriously.

[DocInChina]

impact,

I don't disagree that Italy is still producing eyewear. You are quoting me figures that you have researched or have seen published. I am on the ground so to speak and have learned things that are contrary to your research. Who is right? Likely only the top people in the companies know for sure.

The point of the thread was "Do designer frames that demand their prices really be of such high quality craftmanship and materials?" My point was that if Safilo, Lux and Marchon find the quality in China to meet their demands then you can be sure these same companies have the to produce non-branded well-crafted product. This was the only reason for my bringing this up and not to open a new debate.

Doc

[For-Life]

I deal with some companies that produce much better looking and much better quality than brand names. I find that no one asks or cares about brand names in my store.

Actually, I have found the quality of many brand names to drop. As soon as the look and quality of a brand name drops in my store I toss it to the curve.

[Jason Carruthers]

If Lawrence Yau brought his equipment to Italy, and I hired him to make frames by hand, could I label them "hand made in Italy by Italian craftsman" even if he still had a permanent residence in China?

[GOS_Queen]

If Lawrence Yau brought his equipment to Italy, and I hired him to make frames by hand, could I label them "hand made in Italy by Italian craftsman" even if he still had a permanent residence in China?

That's a deep thought .... (too deep for 1/2 cup of coffee) ...

Karen

[Chris Ryser]

Mike,
As I said, I hope you nor anyone else take my words as a personal attack because it is definitely not.
Doc

Dont worry Doc...........they are wearing the italian corporation armor and have to defend their masters down to tooth and nail.

[DocInChina]

Dont worry Doc...........they are wearing the italian corporation armor and have to defend their masters down to tooth and nail.

They are quite adept at it too, Chris.

[Cowboy]

The way I see it - who cares? We are such a disposable society that the product one just bought will be canned in a year or two and will move on to the next.

When it comes to brand names - Marketing has done its job. Take any frame from china and put a brand like Dior, Gucci, Nike, etc., on it and they will sell like hot cakes. Not only are we a society that moves from one thing to next, but we are a label society. We care far too much about what logo is on our shirt, or what swish is on our sneakers. If you took all labels away and did not tag country of origin, would it matter where it was made? How about focusin on what really matters - quality of one's ability to make the consumer look good and feel great!
:cheers:

Cowboy

[drk]

Just my take:

Reasons people that are attracted to a specific frame, in order
1.) Looks good on me
2.) It's comfortable
3.) It suits my pocketbook
4.) It suits my vision need
5.) Frame has good quality
6.) Name of frame line







104.) Country of origin

[Chris Ryser]

The way I see it - who cares? We are such a disposable society that the product one just bought will be canned in a year or two and will move on to the next.

If you took all labels away and did not tag country of origin, would it matter where it was made? How about focusin on what really matters - quality of one's ability to make the consumer look good and feel great!
Cowboy

Just summed it up perfectly. All that is missing is, how to neutralize big corporation brainwash advertising.

[Chris Ryser]

Just my take:
Reasons people that are attracted to a specific frame, in order
1.) Looks good on me
2.) It's comfortable
3.) It suits my pocketbook
4.) It suits my vision need
5.) Frame has good quality
6.) Name of frame line.....................
............................................104.) Country of origin

You are the doctor specialist in this field......with a little sale psychology you will only need points one to three ........................your patient will believe you the rest.

[Lawrence Yau]

If Lawrence Yau brought his equipment to Italy, and I hired him to make frames by hand, could I label them "hand made in Italy by Italian craftsman" even if he still had a permanent residence in China?

Originally Posted by DocInChina
Made in Italy can mean:

1) assembled or partially completed in Italy
2) Materials from Italy
3) Most of the materials from Italy
4) 100% Made in Italy (possible)
5) The person in Italy doing the QC of the eyewear coming in from China.


I missed this great topic last night. Jason. This would be "MADE IN ITALY"
, If I were in ITALY.(Since the production process is in ITALY)

DOC is correct. Most "made in Italy" product is just "partially made in ITALY" . Not just frame, but many many item including cloths and toys. I believe many many italy manufacturers are planning to move the production from Italy to China. It's a trend. Many region suffer from this. This is a business. Many business man will try to reduce their cost as much as possible.

There are still factories in Italy and I believe most of the factory just responsible for putting the parts(made in china ) together.

I think in this moments, most of clients will choose designer frame. In Hong Kong, people pursue a good brand name. Good brand imply they are rich or they are in high society. Is it same in US or in Canada?? I believe it's similar to everywhere...

[Jason Carruthers]

Lawrence, it's the same in every country. The basic motive every human being has is to be "important" in some way. The guy driving the Rolls Royce looks down on the guy driving the Mercedes-Benz. Even in the poorest countries, the guy with 50-cent shoes looks down on the guy with no shoes.

People choose brand names because they get status owning them.

[ilanh]

"For Life" responded that he had brandless frames that were superior to the branded ones. I would love to find out which these are and how to contact the vendors. We just bought a whole bunch of Armani frames (because my optician loves them) and I was very unimpressed by their look, design and construction. The price was, of course, obscene. I believe that if you had a beautifully made no-name frame and compared it to the name brand ones (point by point) most patients would take the better one.

Ilan Hartstein, M.D
Los Angeles, CA

[For-Life]

"For Life" responded that he had brandless frames that were superior to the branded ones. I would love to find out which these are and how to contact the vendors. We just bought a whole bunch of Armani frames (because my optician loves them) and I was very unimpressed by their look, design and construction. The price was, of course, obscene. I believe that if you had a beautifully made no-name frame and compared it to the name brand ones (point by point) most patients would take the better one.

Ilan Hartstein, M.D
Los Angeles, CA

The one that I really like is a company called Channel Cam that works out of Canada. Vision Optical has also picked up a lot lately.

Now I know that these companies are not available in the US, but there has to be something like this in the US.

I know for certain that these frames are made in the same factories as Roots and Safilo, but for much much less expensive.

[drk]

I am perplexed.

I really, really, have never had patients coming in asking for a brand. Maybe it's because I'm in the midwest, and it's different in different markets.

Truth is, being in the industry, I think a frame line with a not-so-famous name attached to it is more sophisticated than a major design house sticking their logo on a core frame (like Armani, and Polo, and etc., etc.)

What eyewear brand has survived the fickle fashion cycles? Armani? No. Calvin Klein? No. Name one. (Probably Rayban is the only one.) Branding is "for the moment", only. "Kate Spade is hot", "Prada is hot", "Fendi is hot", whatever! If you have demand for a name-brand, fill that demand, by all means.

I think the best frame companies are those that have proven they do quality over the long run, and stay true to their core values and markets. They rarely have names that are "household", but would be well-known to an industry insider.

[Chris Ryser]

People choose brand names because they get status owning them.

The first big selling brand name frame line was "Christian Dior" Optyl frames made by Wilhelm Anger a very avant garde frame company in Austria at the time.

In the 1960's, these frames were injection moulded in Moncton New Brunswick in Canada where Anger had received millions of dollars of federal grant money, tax free status for 5 years, plus the land to build the plant on. They went bancrupt in 1970.

The frames were molded in parts, fronts and temples...........then shipped to Germany and Austria where they were finished and assembled and the re-exported to other countries and properly stamped as "Made In Germany".
As actually produced in Canada the Canadian importer had to pay customs duties on Christian Dior frames. They were highly expensive but the name did pull some or a lot of customers.