Progressive polycarbonate..

**35oldguy** · 05-12-2005, 12:31 PM

I have a customer who used CR-39 progressive lenses for several years sucessfully. Last week I delivered to her progressives in polycarbonate and she tells me that the hole or corridor is so much smaller than her plastic lenses. In the old RX CR-39 lenses, the distance is +2.75-.25 X 65 OUAdd +2.50 The new lenses have R +3.25-.75ou with a +2.50 add. What is her problem? All measurements are correct. She tells me she see a shadow with the poly lenses. Help!!

**Jedi** · 05-12-2005, 12:43 PM

Are the new lenses the same design as the last pair?
Same frame?
Are the lenses on the same BC?
Have you adjusted panto and/or VD, any difference?

**35oldguy** · 05-12-2005, 01:03 PM

No. The lenses from 2 years ago are Varivue. The poly's are Outlook.

The Base Curve is flatter on the poly's. Yes The adjustment is correct.

Part of the problem is that the patient is my wife. I always have a different person in my office exam her and fit her. Not me. I have tried to satisfy her but even my staff have not been able to. So I have to think it is another problem She is amblyopic in her left eye. Help!!

**Chris Ryser** · 05-12-2005, 01:33 PM

Wifes are always hard to satisfy......nearly as bad as the wife of the ophthalmologist who sends you the highest amount of customers.

**shellrob** · 05-12-2005, 02:53 PM

Although she's not my patient, I do not think that it's a material issue, it rarely is. Non-adapt to poly is overrated and most of the time just an Opticians excuse to switch materials because they canot figure out why a patient "can't see". Most of the time it's a change in the lay out of the no line, change in the rx, mistakes in the measurements, etc. The fact that she blames the poly as the reasoning for her difficulties tells me someone has used that non-adapt poly excuse on her before.

I'd bet it's the cross between the different progressives..re: base curves, and the change in her rx.

Good luck. I agreee with Chris, sometimes family members are the ones I dread working with the most.

**chrisleeja** · 05-12-2005, 03:03 PM

Hmmm, Family? Oh well i would just switch her back to regular CR-39 lenses and get the lab to do it nice and thin. Plus lenses if handled correctly could be really thin wont even know the difference between the CR-39 and the Poly.

**chrisleeja** · 05-12-2005, 03:06 PM

How long has she been wearing the original Rx? That seem to be a big jump to what she was wearing before!

**Cherry Optical** · 05-12-2005, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by chrisleeja

Hmmm, Family? Oh well i would just switch her back to regular CR-39 lenses and get the lab to do it nice and thin. Plus lenses if handled correctly could be really thin wont even know the difference between the CR-39 and the Poly.

How about trying a Younger Image in Triology lens material? They should be close to the same price as your Outlook Poly, and will have better optics, especially when looking away from the center of lens.

As far as Shellrob saying 'poly non-adapt' as an excuse to change materials being overrated: Next time you are in the Green Bay area you are more than welcome to come into my lab and review returned lenses with me. Interstingly enough you will find the highest number of progressive nonadapts are made in polycarbonate lens material.

Trust me, I wish this was not the case. It is not much fun to throw away $130 polycarbonate, AR coated lenses. Perhaps I study my remakes too much.......

Adam

**Spexvet** · 05-12-2005, 04:42 PM

Are these polarized lenses?

**35oldguy** · 05-12-2005, 05:18 PM

In the USA they have a non-adapt guarantee?!!? What is the phone numbers of these companies or e-mail addresses? I would like to complain. My lab does not guarantee their progressives for any reason.

Originally Posted by shellrob

Although she's not my patient, I do not think that it's a material issue, it rarely is. Non-adapt to poly is overrated and most of the time just an Opticians excuse to switch materials because they canot figure out why a patient "can't see". Most of the time it's a change in the lay out of the no line, change in the rx, mistakes in the measurements, etc. The fact that she blames the poly as the reasoning for her difficulties tells me someone has used that non-adapt poly excuse on her before.

I'd bet it's the cross between the different progressives..re: base curves, and the change in her rx.

Good luck. I agreee with Chris, sometimes family members are the ones I dread working with the most.

**35oldguy** · 05-12-2005, 05:21 PM

The manufacturer does or does not give you a new lens when you have a non-adapt? In Guatemala they say they do not honor the manufacturer's guarantee.

Originally Posted by Cherry Optical

How about trying a Younger Image in Triology lens material? They should be close to the same price as your Outlook Poly, and will have better optics, especially when looking away from the center of lens.

As far as Shellrob saying 'poly non-adapt' as an excuse to change materials being overrated: Next time you are in the Green Bay area you are more than welcome to come into my lab and review returned lenses with me. Interstingly enough you will find the highest number of progressive nonadapts are made in polycarbonate lens material.

Trust me, I wish this was not the case. It is not much fun to throw away $130 polycarbonate, AR coated lenses. Perhaps I study my remakes too much.......

Adam

**35oldguy** · 05-12-2005, 05:29 PM

The problem here is you get a clerk from the front desk handling all the orders and her standard answer is sorry we cannot do that except in poly. She knows nothing about optics. Sad the customer cannot get what they pay for.

Yes when I was in the lab......you probalby have heard this story before... we could put a knife edge on it and really make it look nice...the true craftmen could!

Originally Posted by chrisleeja

Hmmm, Family? Oh well i would just switch her back to regular CR-39 lenses and get the lab to do it nice and thin. Plus lenses if handled correctly could be really thin wont even know the difference between the CR-39 and the Poly.

**Clive Noble** · 05-12-2005, 11:02 PM

There's only one option 35 old guy. if you can't satisfy your wife by changing the lenses, how about changing the wife?

**Lenore** · 05-12-2005, 11:09 PM

I am amblyopic in my left eye and I have a horrible time with poly. Rule number one, pass the family members to someone else! Is she keeping the poly on? Is she switching from one to the other? I have 30 different pairs of glasses and I can wear plastic or poly. If I go back and fourth I have a horrible readjustment period of days! The other thing is move a quarter diopter from the top to the add and see what happens? I know it's only a quarter but it is shutting down the channels on her.

Originally Posted by 35oldguy

No. The lenses from 2 years ago are Varivue. The poly's are Outlook.

The Base Curve is flatter on the poly's. Yes The adjustment is correct.

Part of the problem is that the patient is my wife. I always have a different person in my office exam her and fit her. Not me. I have tried to satisfy her but even my staff have not been able to. So I have to think it is another problem She is amblyopic in her left eye. Help!!

**shellrob** · 05-13-2005, 07:22 AM

Cherry.....I don't doubt for a minute that your number one reason for remakes on progressives is because of material. However, just because that's the reason your lab is given, doesn't necessarily mean that's the case, it's just the only reason some opticians give because they cannot figure out the real reason why the patients are having difficulty seeing. I'm not saying that there's never a non-adapt with poly, it's just if some opticans would take the time to look at the big picture and look at all the aspects of the lenses besides the material, in most cases, there's something else going on. Some either don't know what to look for or really don't want to take the time.

Again, not in all cases, but I can't remember the last non-adapt to poly lenses I had. It's usually, change in rx, different base curves, increases a measurement in the frame, etc.

**Lee Prewitt** · 05-13-2005, 12:59 PM

I use a fair amount of progressive poly with the one exception that I use Shamir for all the lenses. Work with the best and you won't go wrong.

**Bev Heishman** · 05-13-2005, 01:05 PM

If your wife does not adapt to the new progressive lens style, switch her back to a style that is more comparable in design. My suggestion is Adaptar or VIP since I believe the Varivue is discontinued.

To see if poly is playing a role, trial frame the Rx or place it in the phoropter and see if it is clearer. If it is, then the material may be playing a role in the problem. If not much better, the patient may be overplused with the RX given.

**shellrob** · 05-13-2005, 01:24 PM

Wow, I haven't heard adaptar and vip in a very very long time.

**35oldguy** · 05-13-2005, 04:04 PM

They used to be the lens of choice. What happened. Marketing and compettion or are they obsolete.?

Originally Posted by shellrob

Wow, I haven't heard adaptar and vip in a very very long time.

**35oldguy** · 05-13-2005, 04:07 PM

Thank you Lenore. I will try that!

Originally Posted by Lenore

I am amblyopic in my left eye and I have a horrible time with poly. Rule number one, pass the family members to someone else! Is she keeping the poly on? Is she switching from one to the other? I have 30 different pairs of glasses and I can wear plastic or poly. If I go back and fourth I have a horrible readjustment period of days! The other thing is move a quarter diopter from the top to the add and see what happens? I know it's only a quarter but it is shutting down the channels on her.

**ken@foothills** · 05-13-2005, 05:33 PM

Remember the lady is not complaining that she can't see, the channel is narrower, thats because the stronger the add the narrower the channel. A plus 1 add is about 27mm wide a 2.50 add is about 22mm. I realize the add has not been increased by number but by the plus in the distance. The shadow that she is noticing is from the poly abb and the slight increase in the cyl, I wouldn't be suprised if she also says the shadow has a yellow cast to it.

**35oldguy** · 05-13-2005, 06:20 PM

Thanks Ken for the input. What is your progressive of choice?

Originally Posted by ken@foothills

Remember the lady is not complaining that she can't see, the channel is narrower, thats because the stronger the add the narrower the channel. A plus 1 add is about 27mm wide a 2.50 add is about 22mm. I realize the add has not been increased by number but by the plus in the distance. The shadow that she is noticing is from the poly abb and the slight increase in the cyl, I wouldn't be suprised if she also says the shadow has a yellow cast to it.

**Cherry Optical** · 05-15-2005, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by shellrob

Cherry.....I don't doubt for a minute that your number one reason for remakes on progressives is because of material. However, just because that's the reason your lab is given, doesn't necessarily mean that's the case, it's just the only reason some opticians give because they cannot figure out the real reason why the patients are having difficulty seeing. I'm not saying that there's never a non-adapt with poly, it's just if some opticans would take the time to look at the big picture and look at all the aspects of the lenses besides the material, in most cases, there's something else going on. Some either don't know what to look for or really don't want to take the time.

Again, not in all cases, but I can't remember the last non-adapt to poly lenses I had. It's usually, change in rx, different base curves, increases a measurement in the frame, etc.

That makes sense to me. What I do not understand is why someone would want to work with a lab that does not stand behind there product? Or perhaps the better question should be, how do I find ODs that don't need/want/have nonadapt policies? :idea:

Adam

**cinders831** · 05-15-2005, 06:13 PM

I am a shamir devout! I agree, Shamir is the best! btw I tend to agree with earlier posts, perhaps its lens design or base curve or rx but I rarely can contribute a non adapt soley to poly.

**johntricity** · 05-15-2005, 08:45 PM

Your being punished for not fitting your WIFE with the most expensive lens at your disposal ! And who ever recomended Adaptar ? must be trying to break them up !