What's your policy on poly stress fractures?

[Andrew Weiss]

We had a patient come in today with stress fractures at the drill-holes on her Silhouette rimless. The lenses are poly Younger Image progressives and they're 14 months old. She says that the stress fractures just started a couple of weeks ago. She also says she either wears the glasses or has them in the case, and she cleans them only with the eyeglass cleaner we sell here, which to the best of our knowledge does not contain isopropyl alcohol and is "rated" for AR coated lenses.

My question is: what would you do for this patient? Would you redo the lens at no charge? Would you charge her your lab costs? Would you do something else? My solution was to offer her a very steep discount off of retail -- 40%. What is your policy on stress-fractured poly lenses? Thanks for the help.

[For-Life]

Replace them at no cost.

It was not her fault. Stress fractures like those are caused by manufacturing. So either replace them at no charge with the same material or with another material.

We need to take it on the nose when it is our fault.

[Cherry Optical]

14 months is a borderline.

I would suggest switching materials on all your drilled rimless eyewear to prevent this from happeing in the future. The clinics we do work with that have had the most sucess with drilled rimless use #1 TRIVEX, #2 HIGH INDEX 1.60, and #3 DELUXE INDEX 1.66-1.70 lenses for their drill mounts. Using anything else leads to breakage, no matter what 'tricks' you do.

I am sure someone will post, "but those materials are more expensive!" I would answer that statement by telling your patients that if they want a drilled rimless frame they will need to use a strong lens material to prevent breakage. Explain to them that with drilled rimless the lenses hold the frame together, where as with all other frames, the frame holds the lenses together.

Adam

[drk]

I'm with For-Life.

Has anyone tried Chris Ryser's product to prevent such cracks?

[Cherry Optical]

I'm with For-Life.

Has anyone tried Chris Ryser's product to prevent such cracks?

The product and chamvering do not eliminate the internal stress that is inherently in polycarbonate lenses. So, you are right about it being the manufacturing, but not by the labroatory, but by the lens manufacturer.

Adam

[Aarlan]

14 months is a borderline.

with drilled rimless use #1 TRIVEX, #2 HIGH INDEX 1.60, and #3 DELUXE INDEX 1.66-1.70 lenses for their drill mounts. Using anything else leads to breakage, no matter what 'tricks' you do.


Adam

I agree that the best alternative, as long as the Rx is not too high, is a Trivex lens. I would next consider 1.67 or 1.70, but for a variety of factors, Trivex seems to be the best choice. I have tried a few labs with poly, but inevitably, whether it is 3 months or 13 months, there is some issue. Trivex is a bit more expensive, but most of your competition probably doesn't use or have access to this lens. It is yet another opportunity to differentiate yourself from the big guys.

AA

[Andrew Weiss]

For Life, thank you for being so clear and correct. I'll discuss this with the docs who own the practice.

I would prefer to use Trivex also on our lower-power drill jobs like hers (and since she wears an Image, that would be easy). But we've found that Trivex, through the labs we use, is VERY much more expensive than poly, more comparable to 1.67. Any recommendations for good quality labs that charge more reasonably?

[For-Life]

I'm with For-Life.

Has anyone tried Chris Ryser's product to prevent such cracks?

A year ago I had a lot of problems with cracking. Sent my lab a sample of Chris' product and have not has one crack job since. Not one single lens.

[Cherry Optical]

For Life, thank you for being so clear and correct. I'll discuss this with the docs who own the practice.

I would prefer to use Trivex also on our lower-power drill jobs like hers (and since she wears an Image, that would be easy). But we've found that Trivex, through the labs we use, is VERY much more expensive than poly, more comparable to 1.67. Any recommendations for good quality labs that charge more reasonably?

I will recommend myself, if you don't mind. We do a great deal of TRIVEX and drill mounts. I know we are not going to be any where near the lowest price, but our service, quality, and turnaround times are impressive.

Our prices for TRIVEX and POLY are almost identical. If you are interested, please call me at 1-800-469-4211. We sell every type of lens available including HOYA, Varilux, SOLA, Zeiss, Rodenstock, and Pentax.

Adam Cherry

[Chris Ryser]

Replace them at no cost.

It was not her fault. Stress fractures like those are caused by manufacturing. So either replace them at no charge with the same material or with another material.

We need to take it on the nose when it is our fault.

I do not agree. In 14 month this person has opened and closed the temples thousands of times. Stress cracks should have developed much earlier if they would have initiated by the mounting and drilling operation.

Therfore it would be another reaon. Make sure that the lens cleaner does not contain any type of solvent but is guaranteed only surfactant based .

Customer might also have purchased or used somebody elses lens cleaner. IPA containing cleaner sneacking into the holes at application might just do the kob overnight on the night table. Polycarb lenses are only sensitive in areas where there is no hard coat..........holes and edges.

[cinders831]

I will recommend myself, if you don't mind. We do a great deal of TRIVEX and drill mounts. I know we are not going to be any where near the lowest price, but our service, quality, and turnaround times are impressive.

Our prices for TRIVEX and POLY are almost identical. If you are interested, please call me at 1-800-469-4211. We sell every type of lens available including HOYA, Varilux, SOLA, Zeiss, Rodenstock, and Pentax.

Adam Cherry

you didnt mention shamir product, do you sell that?

[shellrob]

14 months is a long time to remake as a manufacturers defect. I would remake at maybe a high discount into another material. Most patients will tell you that they are wearing them, storing then, and cleaning them like you tell them, but we all know that's not true, but you can't call them liars either. The only other thing I would try to do if it becomes difficult is do an Ar remake on them. I'm assuming that they have an ar that offers a 2 year scratch warranty. That may fix the situation at no cost to either of you but explain to them that this is their one time only remake. I would also(like all the above posts) switch your drill mount material. I don't know what lab you're using to do these types of jobs, but the cost between poly and Trivex shouldn't be that much of a difference unless you're using one of those labs that for some reason doesn't want to use Trivex(which I cannot understand) so they mark up the Trivex to eleviate you from using that lens(i know... I've seen a couple labs do it).

[For-Life]

I am surprised that many of you say that 14 months is a long time. Don't we say that a pair of glasses should last two years? Then why are we selling products that only last 14 months. I am not saying that you sell a cheap product, but it is important to stand behind it for a period of time.

[Andrew Weiss]

. I don't know what lab you're using to do these types of jobs, but the cost between poly and Trivex shouldn't be that much of a difference unless you're using one of those labs that for some reason doesn't want to use Trivex(which I cannot understand) so they mark up the Trivex to eleviate you from using that lens(i know... I've seen a couple labs do it).

I don't want to dish any labs, but I'd also like some feedback. Moderators, please let me know if I've overstepped a line here.

We use three labs: Optogenics in Syracuse, NY; Luzerne in Wilkes-Barre, PA; and AccuRx in Johnston, RI. We are generally happy with their work. All three charge for Trivex at about the same price they charge for 1.6 or 1.67 lenses. I am always open to suggestions (already got one from Cherry).

Thanks.

[Slug]

A year ago I had a lot of problems with cracking. Sent my lab a sample of Chris' product and have not has one crack job since. Not one single lens.

Can you elaborate on this product? There have been a few references to it but no details. I'm curious as to how or what it does to solve the cracking problem.

I work for a wholesale lab and we struggle with the number of returns that come back for fractures around the drill holes. We generally will take care of it, even at 14 mo., but will do so, most times, only if they agree to switch the material to a Trivex.

Thanks,
Steve

[For-Life]

Can you elaborate on this product? There have been a few references to it but no details. I'm curious as to how or what it does to solve the cracking problem.

I work for a wholesale lab and we struggle with the number of returns that come back for fractures around the drill holes. We generally will take care of it, even at 14 mo., but will do so, most times, only if they agree to switch the material to a Trivex.

Thanks,
Steve

It is called OMS Edgit.

It is actually sold by fellow member Chris Rysler's company.

As we know when poly is cut it has a million little cracks around the edge, so we polish it wet to eliminate those cracks. However, with drill mounts we cannot do that. This product is solution that if you drop into the holes after drilling will seal up all of those holes.

Like I said, this is better than sliced bread.

Here is the website for the product:

http://optochemicals.com/poly_edgit.htm

Here is Chris' company's website:

http://optochemicals.com

[cinders831]

I am surprised that many of you say that 14 months is a long time. Don't we say that a pair of glasses should last two years? Then why are we selling products that only last 14 months. I am not saying that you sell a cheap product, but it is important to stand behind it for a period of time.

Again I say Amen FOR LIFE. I agree, if someone invests in silhouettes and nice lenses (though I am not sure image is nice) then a wty should be implied. I cant imagine misuse is the only culprit. In any case you surely have a retunr customer if you make clear this is an exception but that you are willing to replace the lenses at no charge. Oh, and I realize I may be shot for this but I use mostly poly for drills with no trouble. I hate to say it but I dont mind poly.

[Chris Ryser]

Can you elaborate on this product? There have been a few references to it but no details. I'm curious as to how or what it does to solve the cracking problem.

You can get all the information directly by going to http://optochemicals.com go on home page and scroll down to until you get to Drillseal and click on the link.

It takes one drop per hole and problems are solved.

:idea:

[Cherry Optical]

you didnt mention shamir product, do you sell that?

Yes. Shamir as well.

Adam

[rsandr]

Yes. Shamir as well.

Adam

You giving it another go Adam.
Hope things work out better than in Florida.

Rick

[Cherry Optical]

You giving it another go Adam.
Hope things work out better than in Florida.

Rick

Huh? I am a bit confussed. Florida. Florida.. Transitions meeting? Varilux meeting?


Adam <---Truely confussed.:idea:

[rsandr]

Huh? I am a bit confussed. Florida. Florida.. Transitions meeting? Varilux meeting?


Adam <---Truely confussed.:idea:

Sorry, I must be getting you confused with Dr Adam Cherry of
Kid’s Health Services Inc.

[Chris Ryser]

Sorry, I must be getting you confused with Dr Adam Cherry of
Kid’s Health Services Inc.

What is the relation of this private conversation to stress on Pily?

[rsandr]

What is the relation of this private conversation to stress on Poly?

About as much as Adam trying to sell his lenses in this thread has.
Are you after a moderators job?

Rick

[Chris Ryser]

Are you after a moderators job?
Rick

Thanks for the offer.............got to decline.

Still think that you could open another thread for new and un-related subjects out of pure curtesy.