What is the quality of glasses at Walmart or Sam's Club? This question isn't posed as a he said she said, but can you give factual information on the differences between independents and these two particular chains.
What is the quality of glasses at Walmart or Sam's Club? This question isn't posed as a he said she said, but can you give factual information on the differences between independents and these two particular chains.
While the heat of competition may tempt some to respond negatively, after 47 years in this industry I can share one observation I have made.
No one has ever made a bad pair of glasses on purpose.
The quality of competition in our industry is exceptionally high.The consumer is well served by both the independent practitioner and the mass merchandising chains.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
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Consumer Reports did a study a couple of years ago that showed independents have a higher average quality than chain stores. That would include Wal-Mart.
I know someone who works(ed) for National Vision Associates (or whatever it's called this week), which leases some Walmart locations.
Everything is run-of-the-mill. No real designer frames, Essilor Natural was the "premium" PAL of choice, Reflection Free AR (I think). Typical frame lines were from Nouveau and that level of quality, though they had one or two Safilo and Marchon frames. The quality of the central lab was hit or miss, the quality of service depended on the "optician" that the customer dealt with ;) . If you picked the very best of everything they had to offer, the price would be similar to that of an independant optical shop - still much less than you would pay at a chain.
in June of '01, I would beg to differ with your conclusions. I quote the opening paragraphs below. The thrust of the article was on price, not quality.Importantly, the ratings given were by the consumers themselves, not CR. The article said the consumer will definitely pay more money at a chain than at an independent, and that very few of the respondents were happy with the price they paid.
From Consumer Reports June 01
"Eyeglasses are part medical device and part fashion statement, a marriage that has always made them a tough buy. Today, you have more choices than ever, and they can cost you.
There are tens of thousands of different frames and probably as many places to shop: private medical offices, small optical boutiques, optical chains like LensCrafters and Pearle Vision, and the optical departments of warehouse clubs, department stores, and mass merchandisers. There are also enough options in lens types, materials, and coatings to make you bleary-eyed.
To help focus your decision, we surveyed 64,000 Consumer Reports readers last year who had bought glasses during the previous two years. We asked them about eye exams, frames, lenses, service, and any problems with their new glasses. The Ratings are based on their responses.
Readers awarded eyeglass vendors high marks overall. Three out of four said they were completely or very satisfied with their experience. Even more praised the quality of lenses and frames, the care taken to fit them, and the skill and courtesy of those involved.
Our survey respondents were less enthusiastic when we asked about price. Fewer than half overall said they felt completely or very satisfied with the cost of their new spectacles. ""
A close industry friend of mine was given a "supplier of the year" award by Sam Walton at an annual dinner walmart used to (and may still) have.I won't mention the company, but its one most of us use routinely. Accusing them of poor quality would be like saying their "American Optical" frames aren't as good as my "American Optical" frames. The company was not AO but I think you get the drift.
I stand by my original statement that the quality on average, is no different in a chain operation than it is in an independent's. Anyone who believes differently would do well to check out the chains a little more closely. Its called "Know your competition" and our competition is good!
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Having worked in both a chain environment and in a independant office I will offer this.
In a chain environment that has an on site lab, the labs are often "rated" or reviewed based on their # of breakages, speed or jobs per hour, or some other measurable statistic. Often these statistic will determine whether or not the staff/individual recieves a bonus. These #'s can be skewed by pushing out jobs that are out of tolerance, scratched lenses, damaged frames and waiting to see what happens. On the retail side, the opticians are too busy to check out jobs that have come out from the lab and/or find it redundant to check a pair that has been checked out. The client eventually comes back with a pair off power, frame damaged, lenses scratched, etc. and it is now longer a lab problem but a retail problem that doesn't affect the bonus structure.
In an independant office there is usually less volume and more time to properly scrutinize each pair. Many offices order their lenses from wholesalers and in this situation they are the customer too. A wholesale lab MUST have every job that leaves the lab to be perfect (within tolerance), or the customer will go elsewhere and not come back, a chain lab does not have this concern.
I've worked with many great people in the lab and some really terrible ones too, so this next comment is not meant to be disrespectful to anyone here, but the truth of the matter is chain labs have little if no responsiblity to the end consumer, much of what they do affects only their own paycheck.
The reason I had posed the question of quality, is that consumers quote prices from Walmart and Sams Club and I have visited some of these outlets and I can tell that in many cases they are probably paying under twenty dollars. And as far as the lenses, why are we purchasing premimum products from labs and paying premimum prices when their are lens companies that are offering very low prices for what is supposed to be of equal quality. And why purchase frames from the major frame companies when you can purchase frames for as little as $2.95. Or maybe my conclusion is correct and that the consumer concerned with price is not my customer and all glasses look the same on the first day of purchase.
Harry,Originally Posted by hcjilson
I agree with you, if the productand service is the same. But when a customer says "I saw an ad for XX optical chain, thier price is $69 for two pairs, including eye exam, why do you charge more?" it is very likely that the "two pairs" is not the same as I sell. So what's the difference? It could be that the frames are discontinued or poor quality. The lenses could be seconds. They don't pay their opticians well, and therefore don't attract and retain the best staff. The person serving the customer may not be an optician at all. Sure, the big chains get volume discounts, but they also have huge overhead - rent, upper management, advertising. So, how could they provide the same product and service for a dramatically lower price?
One way is to operate at a loss, or a very slim profit margin. Big boxes can afford to do it, but the little guy can't.
One thing I can promise you, having been on both sides of this issue. "Big Boxes" can't afford to operate at a loss any more than the independent can.The don't compete on price, they just create the "illusion" of low price. Some are better than others at this game but the next time you have a customer tell you what a great deal they got on their last pair from a chain, ask them to tell you what they paid! You will be surprised to find out that you would have been HAPPY to have made their last pair at that price! I have a current "big Box" price list. As consumer reports will tell you, the independents are not getting that much for the same product. The "big box just creates the illusion of a good deal.
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
Amen to that, Bro. That's what I've always said. You will not pay less, in an apples to apples comparison, and the professional service will be much lower.
Summary:
Private eyecare is a good value.
Advertising is very effective.
The corporate Walmarts (according to their Opticians) use a Zeiss A/R, not an R/F.
I have to disagree with hcjilson, however. No business can operate at a loss AS A WHOLE (for a while at least...GM lost 1.1 BILLION last quarter alone...but I digress), however, each of their departments individually are a different story. Some products/departments can act as a 'loss leader' to boost market share or lure people into the store to purchase other products/departments. An example would be Walmarts Toy department. In recent years they have sold at minimal/no markup to gobble up market share. The long term result? They have effectively sent Toys-R-Us into reorganization, opening the possibility that Walmart will be the big dog on the block (and consequently will be able to raise prices again, due to a lack of competitive pressure).
Their optical department (as well as the rest of their departments) can in fact have a minimal/almost zero markup at each department, but in aggregate they will add up in a hurry. Our sole source of profit is eyewear sales and professional fees, so our markup inherently needs to be comparatively much higher. The big boxes only offer it as an additional service. If it breaks even (or even if it doesn't), they can make it up elsewhere. Couple this low margin with extraordinary buying power and you have low prices...not just an 'illusion'.
If you did carry the exact same frame with the exact same brand of lens, at most of these box stores they would in fact be lower price. Our selling points as independents, however, is our ability, experience, varied product lines (NOT JUST 'will that be Poly or plastic?'), and superior customer service. If our patients shop solely on price, we may be in a world of trouble. If they base their eyecare purchasing decisions on factors such as service, knowledge, cutting edge technologies and varied product offerings, the box stores don't stand a chance
AA
Last edited by Aarlan; 04-19-2005 at 06:34 PM.
Got a friend working at Walmart.
They use the essilor natural even at a 17 high. The other choices of zeiss progressive lenses are much more expensive, so the customer opts for the natural.
You get what you pay for.
Harry
Aarlan, you may disagree with me all you want but the fact remains that no one, up to and including GM will accept loss leaders as being the cause for corporate losses.Corporations and private businesses have a way of dealing with losses. Fire the people responsible and replace them with more goal oriented people.
I am at a loss to understand your following comment.
"Their optical department (as well as the rest of their departments) can in fact have a minimal/almost zero markup at each department, but in aggregate they will add up in a hurry."
Add up to what?
If you think for a moment they are working on 0 markup you are sadly mistaken. I bought for a chain organization and I was also responsible for profits. I know where the money is made and I promise you it is not with 0 markups.The David and Goliath mentality doesn't work here. Goliath wants the same thing David does ,but will not cut off his nose to spite his face to get it, and the reason he won't is because he has to answer to stockholders.
Last edited by hcjilson; 04-19-2005 at 07:47 PM. Reason: grammar clean up
"Always laugh when you can. It is a cheap medicine"
Lord Byron
Take a photo tour of Cape Cod and the Islands!
www.capecodphotoalbum.com
hcjilson: "Big Boxes" can't afford to operate at a loss any more than the independent can."
Actually, they can.
Costco is a multi-billion dollar company, and many of their Opti-Club departments routinely lose money, sometimes for years in a row. When you have $30 billion you can do that.
hcjilson: "They don't compete on price, they just create the "illusion" of low price."
Really?
Single Vision $35
Italian made frame $49
minus coupon -$25
TOTAL COST $59
That's no illusion.
Back in the seventies, one of the grocery chains in this state put opticals in to the stores, several years later they put in Video rentals. Their was less overhead, less customer complaints. Vista Optical was one of the companies that sold on a narrow margin and thought they could make money on volume, they are no longer around.
I know in my experience having worked in both fields and by just talking with Opticans in the "discount opticals" and such is that they don't have a choice in what they sell, which forces them to sell what corporate tells them to sell where as in the independants, we use the newest frames and lenses available. That has a lot to do with price. Of course if you use the old or discontinued frames, you can sell them for 40 bucks and if you use the old vip and adaptar lenses, you can sell them for half of what let's say a Varilux ellipse costs. You're all right, you get what you pay for. That's why those discount places can sell a pair of glasses for 99.00. And it's sad but true, some of the Opticans that work at those "discount opticals" that I have talked with recently don't even know what Shamir lenses are, didn't know what the new Ellipse was, and weren't even selling the new transistion 5 lenses yet. I was surprised at that. I can just say that I'm glad to be able to make all the latest and greatest frames and lenses available to my patients and they trust me that they're money is going to a great investment.
Yep COSTCO really scares me!!!
Walmart is nothing compared to them in my opinion.
Costco also pays the most for Optician's salaries.
:angry:
Really can't accept that the optical dept is a "loss leader" at Walmart!!! A loss leader needs to be a product with a high purchase frequency rate--the loss of profit is off set by drawing more customers in who in turn buy other stuff.
Think the single biggest factor in Walmart's success is fairly obvious--traffic. And the perception (based on their other products) that the eyewear must be less expensive.
And of course, a lot of these guys practice a version of bait and switch, the 2 pair for $69 stuff, but more importantly they are not allergic to the idea of "selling".
I'm by no means an authority on the Wal, but I can accept the notion that the opticals and other dept. are loss leaders. I don't know if this is the case in the US, but a few years back Walmart Canada leased space to an optical chain, Public optical if my info is correct. Low prices and I assume low margins ultimately doomed this franchise and then the corporate (Walmart) opticals picked up where they left off. Eyewear as with photofinishing require a period of time for processing, often this promotes an addition visit for pick-up. Now I don't know about any of you but when I go to pick-up a few things from a store, I usually come home with more than I intended. I believe this is Walmarts angle on having those departments loss leaders.
Quality of glasses consist of several different divisons:
1) Frame
Metal frames today are just about all made in general of a metal alloy called monel. This is the same material as they make propeller shafts for boats and many more strenght reistant product. They are then coated or colored. So the general quailty is all over about the same.
Plastic frames are made from sheets of thermoplastics which are manufactured by a very few companies and are also just about the same standard quality
2) Lenses
Today's plastic lenses are all molded from standard monomers or in the case of polycarboante injection molded. The molds are made by a few companies world wide and therefore you will encounter just about a genearlly perfect quality in lens materials according to the type you choose.
3) Prescription lenses
When using finished stock lenses they also in general correspond to the powers they are supposed to be.
When manufactured to power they will have to be surfaced. The quality coming out of the surfacing lab should be within tolerance limits. The are being checked when finished and should be perfect if not for human error.The cutting of the lenses into the frame is the human factor where errors can show up too, but if properly checked they should not be passe for dispensing
4)Dispensing service
At the point of sale his is probably the most delicate area for a patient purchasing glasses. To start with all the measurement have to be taken properly and forwarded to the lab executing the assembly of the prescription.
At the point of delivery properly trained personel can make the big difference. Improperly adjusted glasses can even produce visual problems even if the prescription is 100% correct. Improperly fitted glasses can hurt behind the ear and make bad marks on the nose. Of course this is only a basic outlay and many more factors can play an important role.
Conclusion
Wal Mart has been founded and run to become the largest retailer in the world. This company is not run by people who where borne in stupidland.
They can not afford any major mistakes, as these mistakes will also get major publicity
Their optical departments do sell brand name frames and also lenses. They would have to give you good quality products for the price they are charging.
However I do not like their open stores behind the cash registers as their is no privacy I would prefer in an independent store in a nice cozy atmosphere to choose my glasses without having full shopping carts rushing to the exit behind my back. The price of good glasses warrants a quite place to discuss all aspects of the purchase and delivery without 5 dozen eyes fixed on you.
Just because Walmart is huge and makes tons of money doens't mean they are always selling you a great product. They still sell some "****". I myself shop there and love Walmart for "certain" things...not everything. Walmart was smart to put in an Optical shop because they're name sells itself. They know that when people think of Walmart, it must be inexpensive, therefore they go. Easy sale.
I actually wasn't specifically talking about walmart but about all those discount eyeglass shops.
I do also believe that the Optician will make or break you. If they don't take the time to do the things that Chris has mentioned above, it doesn't matter how cheap or how expensive the glasses are, they won't work. However, I still believe that we as Opticians owe it to our patients/customers to provide them with the highest quality product available. Would you rather drive a 2000 car or a 2005?
Off topic: Do you think Walmart will ever open a car dealership? What would that be like? Cars made in China for only $2999.98?
Awesome. I'm there if they have an early bird special. Hee hee.
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