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Thread: RayBan Ophthalmic - An Oxymoron?

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    RayBan Ophthalmic - An Oxymoron?

    RayBan is more than just a sunglass brand. It is the best-selling sunglass in the world. RayBan means sunglasses. RayBans ban rays. By contrast, eyeglasses invite rays to enter the lens and focus in the eye. The term "RayBan ophthalmic" is an oxymoron.

    The RayBan ophthalmic line should never have been launched. It has as much chance of success as Coors bottled water or Jack Daniels beer (both failed product attempts). If Luxottica wants to sell more frames, they should launch new brand names instead of trying to get a free ride on the coattails of RayBan.

    Jason Carruthers

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    Master OptiBoarder LENNY's Avatar
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    I would disagree!

    Yes no one will come in and ask for Ophthalmic RB!

    But the frames are nice and priced right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LENNY
    I would disagree!

    Yes no one will come in and ask for Ophthalmic RB!

    But the frames are nice and priced right!
    They are nice, but I think the whole point is, why did it have to be given the Ray Ban name? It would of made more sense to give it another them. It is true, the two products have two completely different looks.

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    Master OptiBoarder mullo's Avatar
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    Many ophthalmic lines cross borders into the sunglass market using their same name and are successful........Why not run with a successful name? Many designers do this everyday with many facets of fashion.......watches, clothing, shoes, handbags. Oakley is doing well with sunglasses, ophthalmic and clothing lines.

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    It is a comparison of the two lines. Oakley does sporty sunglasses, so its ophthalmic line remained sporty. Gucci is about fashion, its ophthalmic line is about fashion, so its sunglasses is about fashion.

    I do not think you will see the same trend with Ray Ban.

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    Question

    In the movie Sahara, Mathew McConaughey, Steve Zahn, and Penelope Crus are wearing Ray Ban product. A few years ago when Ray Ban supplied sunglasses for the movie" Men In Black", at that time I put a large order of Ray Bans in stock, they eventually sold but not like I anticipated. I notice that so many of the public emulate these celiberties it suprises me that more of the public doesn't ask for the glasses that a star is wearing.

    And by the way where is the spell check icon?

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    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken@foothills
    In the movie Sahara, Mathew McConaughey, Steve Zahn, and Penelope Crus are wearing Ray Ban product. A few years ago when Ray Ban supplied sunglasses for the movie" Men In Black", at that time I put a large order of Ray Bans in stock, they eventually sold but not like I anticipated.
    Same with the Matrix Ray Bans
    ...Just ask me...

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    OptiBoard Professional Ryan's Avatar
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    So would it be a better idea to introduce it as a new whole line that nobody has ever heard of? With the Ray Ban name on it, it gains instant credibility with those that know Ray Ban is a good product. I probably wouldn't have bought any if it were named something I have never heard of. The frames have been good quality for me and sell really well.

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    opti-tipster harry a saake's Avatar
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    ray ban

    Jason, you need to learn a little bit more of what you speak about, Rayban opthalmic lines have been on the market for years and have done quite well. I know as i was employed by B&L for over 10 years. I wilkl be selling them in my store and i am sure they will do quite well.

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    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    I think I know a bit about them..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Carruthers
    RayBan is more than just a sunglass brand. It is the best-selling sunglass in the world. RayBan means sunglasses. RayBans ban rays. By contrast, eyeglasses invite rays to enter the lens and focus in the eye. The term "RayBan ophthalmic" is an oxymoron.

    The RayBan ophthalmic line should never have been launched. It has as much chance of success as Coors bottled water or Jack Daniels beer (both failed product attempts). If Luxottica wants to sell more frames, they should launch new brand names instead of trying to get a free ride on the coattails of RayBan.

    Jason Carruthers
    Since I sell Ray Ban Ophthalmics.

    All I can say is that it is my best line. Half of my accounts have purchased opening orders in the last nine months since it was transfered to me. That pace is picking up considerably since the new releases at VE East which were outstanding. The sell through from the initial orders has been fantastic and the reorders are higher than any of my other lines. I am averaging one call every other day from dispensers wanting to see the line because consumers are bringing the information ( model, size, color) to them and asking for the product.

    Forbes did a study on the top brands recognized by consumers. Ray Ban was the best known Sunglass brand name by far. It was ranked on the same level as Coke and Mc Donalds in the public's recognition.This product has the Ray Ban logo on the side of the temples, the nosepads, the temple tips and the cases.

    The dispenser has the option of three eyesizes on 7 of the 26 of the metal styles and 2 of the 16 zyl styles.(instead of the standard two). The frames come in three groups, heavy for large individuals, medium for average size individuals, and light for small size individuals. Even the zyl's have been shaved to reduce the weight in the smaller sizes and womens models on the temples and fronts.

    My prediction is that it will be in the top 5 of Luxottica's 24 brands in two or three years if they continue with great releases like last fall and this spring. The print campaign and the movie product placements are helping too.


    Rep (Luxottica)

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    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    As if Lux doesn't have the right to "ride the coattails" of Rayban...they own it, they can do what they want with it!

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    Old Optician to New OD Aarlan's Avatar
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    Good lord!!!
    Why are independents still carrying luxottica product? Thanks to our 'loyal support', luxottica has garnered the resources to continue their conquest to corner the optical market. I know this is a tired old arguement, but with hundreds of vendors and thousands of brand names to choose from, why would you contribute to a product line that lines the pockets of your direct competition ?

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    Short-term sales, long-term damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by rep
    All I can say is that it is my best line.
    My prediction is that it will be in the top 5 of Luxottica's 24 brands in two or three years if they continue with great releases like last fall and this spring.
    Rep (Luxottica)
    It's your best line? That's hard to believe but even if it's true it doesn't mean RayBan ophthalmic is a good strategy. Any line can get some sales. What about the long-term damage to the RayBan name? You say RayBan is one of the most recognizable brands in the world? Why do you think that is? It's because RayBan has been focused on sunglasses for so many years. In the consumers mind, RayBan IS SUNGLASSES. Like Kleenex is facial tissue. Jell-O is gelatin dessert. Q-tips are cotton swabs. Coke is cola.

    You start trying to s t r e t c h the brand to mean more things, you are going to weaken it. Maybe not in the short term but in the long run.

    If Luxottica continues losing contracts like it did with Giorgio Armani then sure, RayBan ophthalmic might be in your top 5. Still doesn't make it a good strategy. If it is such a great line, it shouldn't need the RayBan name.

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    Brand extensions are fairly routine and typically work. Acknowledged that they can be over-done and result in dilution and/or loss of brand clarity.

    As just one example, Pepsi sales are greater today because of brand expansion - ten different sodas with Pepsi in the name. RayBan Rx was a smart brand extension. By the way, I drink diet Pepsi. Where would I be if there was only traditional Pepsi? Not a Pepsi customer.

    It would also be interesting to know what % of RayBan Rx frames end up with a sun lens of one sort or another.

    LUX is a threat because they are big but even more so because they are smart. They were not always the king in size, but they have been consistently smarter than their competition. Yet many on this board think it is only their size that is the issue and some seem to think they are stupid. In my view they got big because they were smart. Smart came first.

    Leonardo Del Vecchio was raised in an orphanage and started as an apprentice making molds. It's hard to start as small as he did. I've never met the man but my guess is that he hopes all the competition thinks his company is dumb.

    That is not to say that the trend line continues forever. LUX faces some great challenges now. Their debt is high. Cole has a long history of losing money. Sears is losing customers. WalMart, Costco and managed care are pressuring margins for LUX. Smart independents have greater flexibility and stronger customer loyalty. Their traditional frame distribution business in the US is likely down and that trend will probably continue. Foreign exchange creates pressures and risks for a euro based firm with a high % of sales in US$s. Competition is growing against the Hut. Nevertheless they have advantages - they are big, they are smart and some of the competition thinks they are dumb. Those three factors are the ideal for continued growth.

    Amateur comments. I may be wrong.

    Mike Schaus

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    Mike, you are obviously pro-Lux. I'm also pro-Lux. Del Vecchio rides a helicopter to work. How can you not be impressed with his success?

    Lux may be big and smart but a poor strategy is a poor strategy. Line extentions, especially from powerful brands like RayBan will always produce some sales. But how can you justify damaging your brand for some short-term sales?

    As far as Pepsi is concerned, the reason line extension doesn't hurt them is because the only brand out-selling them (Coke) is also line extended to the extreme. When 2 competitors follow the same bad strategy, one has to be the winner and one has to be the loser.

    Short-term thinking creates weak lines like RayBan Ophthalmic. Long-term thinking creates powerful megabrands like RayBan Sunglasses.

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    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry a saake
    Jason, you need to learn a little bit more of what you speak about, Rayban opthalmic lines have been on the market for years and have done quite well. I know as i was employed by B&L for over 10 years. I wilkl be selling them in my store and i am sure they will do quite well.
    I agree with Harry. We did well with RayBan Ophthalmics before Lux owned them. Why wouldn't an updated line do well now.

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    Master OptiBoarder Jedi's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Jason. While it's all good for lines like Prada, Versace, Dolce & Gabbana to get the exposure of a huge distribution network like Lux, but the long term life of those brands is yet to be determined. And their core market, high end fashionista's may consider this as "selling out".

    Off topic, but what's so great about Ray-Ban sunglasses anyways. Yes, the aviator and wayfarer are classics but all the new stuff looks like rip-offs of other lines and don't get me started with the mirrors. I think people buy this stuff because it's familiar not because it's any better than other lines.
    "It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home."


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    A clarification

    For many of those who have not seen the line. Ray Ban Ophthalmics are not anything like the B & L Ray Ban Ophthalmics. The line does not have any frame that are copies of the Ray Ban sun line.

    It is a complete brand aimed at a younger market or those who want to get out of the double bars without diving into a "designer name"

    Jason, it is the best of the six lines I carry in two states.

    P. S. in case you haven't heard Luxottica didn't lose the Armani contract, they chose not to renew it and based on the turn over I have seen with reps with that product I don't think Safilo is too pleased with it either. Lux's annual report states that Parda and Versace units already surpass their previous GA/EA numbers. Georgio Armani still sits on Luxottica's board of directors.

    Granted Lux has its work cut out for them,and they are undergoing some massive internal changes, but they are not dumb and they are profitable - which is more than be said for a lot of frame companies out there right now.

    Rep ( Luxottica)

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    Master OptiBoarder Jedi's Avatar
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    Armani use to be a great license, when there wasn't a frame line for every licensed brand name out there. By the time Lux was done with it, the styles were so generic and predictable. The first batch of Versace was basically rebadged Emporio, so it will die the same death GA/EA did. The only reason Chanel/Versace/Prada are so hot is they are the flavours of the month. 2 years from now no one will care about those lines.
    "It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home."


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    Jason: "As far as Pepsi is concerned, the reason line extension doesn't hurt them is because the only brand out-selling them (Coke) is also line extended to the extreme."

    If one accepts your logic, the closest RayBan has to Pepsi's Coke is Oakley. And Oakley has extended their brand far further than RayBan and hence the lack of damage to Pepsi from line extension is plausibly applicable to RayBan.

    FYI, I do not accept your logic. RayBan Rx would work if not over-done even w/o Oakley.

    Jedi: "Prada, Versace, Dolce & Gabbana to get the exposure of a huge distribution network like Lux, but the long term life of those brands is yet to be determined"

    Actually we probably do have a general sense of the life span - not forever. Also consider that eyewear licenses are small factors representing a limited % of total designer brand revenue and consumer awareness. Our industry seldom affects the life span much, we run with the names for as long as they work. They fade for reasons primarily beyond our impact. Designer brands tend to have shorter half lives than non-designer brands. RayBan has an advantage in this respect.

    rep: "Luxottica didn't lose the Armani contract, they chose not to renew it" and "I don't think Safilo is too pleased"

    I believe you are wrong on both points.

    rep: "Lux's annual report states that Parda and Versace units already surpass their previous GA/EA numbers."

    LUX net income was 377 million euro in 2002, the last full year with GA. Wall Street does not expect them to exceed that level until 2006. Duly noted that foreign exchange is a factor, but the loss of GA was a large financial blow to the bottom line.

    rep: "Georgio Armani still sits on Luxottica's board of directors."

    That is because I believe he is the second largest shareholder and he's a smart businessman that does not make emotional decisions. He segmented where he wants his brand sold from where he wants his money to sit. The day may well come that he sells however and then departs the BOD.

    Amateur comments. I may be wrong.

    Mike Schaus

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    OptiBoard Professional Ryan's Avatar
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    Jason,


    How exactly is Ray Ban hurting its brand name if the new line is a good quality product? You are thinking it is a cheap, bad quality line, it is not. So how exactly is making a good line of frames a bad strategy??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan
    Jason,


    How exactly is Ray Ban hurting its brand name if the new line is a good quality product? You are thinking it is a cheap, bad quality line, it is not. So how exactly is making a good line of frames a bad strategy??
    Ask Richard Branson the owner of Virgin

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    Master OptiBoarder Jedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impact500
    Actually we probably do have a general sense of the life span - not forever. Also consider that eyewear licenses are small factors representing a limited % of total designer brand revenue and consumer awareness. Our industry seldom affects the life span much, we run with the names for as long as they work. They fade for reasons primarily beyond our impact. Designer brands tend to have shorter half lives than non-designer brands. RayBan has an advantage in this respect.
    Good point on the "not forever". I also agree with your comment regarding eyewear licenses being a small % of revenue. I do feel that the eyewear licenses can have a negative effect on the brand as a whole because they make the brand very accessible. Prada or Versace sunglasses are everywhere, but the handbags, clothing, shoes are only availible in boutiques or high end department stores. The people who buy the big ticket items do not want to see everyone with the same brand name as they wear, so they will abandon a line for a "more exclusive" brand thus killing a line. A couple of examples of this happening recently Levi's, Mossimo, and Isaac Mizrahi. Levi's has a private label brand at Walmart as does Mossimo and Mizrahi at Zellers and Target. All three use to be only availible in Dept. stores or speciality shops and now they are trying to salvage what's left of the brands. I also think Mizrahi went through bankruptcy.
    I precict the next designer to fall into a similar situation will be DKNY/Donna Karan.
    "It's not impossible. I used to bull's-eye womp rats in my T-16 back home."


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    Master OptiBoarder rep's Avatar
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    I don't agree at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi
    I precict the next designer to fall into a similar situation will be DKNY/Donna Karan.
    DKNY is fast becoming the next monster designer brand for Lux.

    Rep

  25. #25
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    Rayban was bought out by Luxottica(lenscrafters mother company). The name remains for sales and marketing reasons. It is bad business sense to throw away a long established name such as Ray Ban.

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