Filling rx without the patient

[Rich R]

Had a lady come in today and wanted to purchase frame and lenses for her son in prison. She had picked a frame and wanted progressive lenses, the rx had a binocular p.d. written on them.
I did not feel comfortable making the glasses without being able to measure monocular p.d. and seg heights.
What would you have done, any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks. Rich R.

[chip anderson]

Discuss size of son, including wt. ht. wide head, narrow head, long/short temples. Put bifocals in what I think would work on most people. Get cash in advance. Deliver glasses.

Chip

[Clive Noble]

Rich, about 30 years ago when I was working in London, I had a similar case, an attractive 'Lady of the Street' well known in the area, came in with an old tattered prescription belonging to her grandma (living in Nigeria) and wanted a new pair of readers, same Rx.

She had a photo shot of her head. I guessed the PD, not too difficult, and she tried on all the smart new frames, till she found one she liked.

Three warm, perfumed ten pound notes were removed from her ample cleavage and some weeks later she came in with a photo of a very happy 'with-it' grandma

[Optom]

I would not dispense progressive,try recommending segment bifocal and put seg. ht. 2mm below HCL.

Best regards,
Optom

[Chris Ryser]

I guessed the PD, not too difficult

Get cash in advance. Deliver glasses

You should all be ashamed to even make un-ethical statements loke the ones above, well knowing that selling, making and delivering and collectiong payment for such a progressive prescription that has a chance and odds of fitting the customer which is like winning 30 million Dollars in the lottery.

Here is the little or big crook in jail being cheated by un-ethical optical retailers

Optom has given the proper answer, and if I would be in Jail, or a monk in a closed convent, I would want my mother buying the glasses from him.

[drk]

Tut, tut, Chris.

Nobody DID recommend putting progressives on this jailbird, if you read the posts more carefully.

You need more coffee this morning, or a cocktail!:cheers:

Clive,
You make my optical experiences seem dull as dishwater.:bbg:

[Cowboy]

Suggest two pairs, one for reading and one for distance. Solves the problem of fitting issues. However, depending upon the Rx, guessing at the PD is still too risky. You put yourself at risk for liabilities. Sometimes the right choice may not make you a fast buck, but it sure will save you from costly ones later. Simply tell the woman that it is not an ethical way to produce eyewear, free yourself of the headaches.


:cheers:

Cowboy

[Chris Ryser]

........................... She had picked a frame and wanted progressive lenses, the rx had a binocular p.d. written on them.

Drk,

Thanks for the advice of needing more coffee..................................

But looking back to act 1........(first post) it say's what it says in the quote.

Now I am all mixed up...................about who needs more coffee in the morning,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,on Satyrday morning.

:D

[For-Life]

Suggest two pairs, one for reading and one for distance. Solves the problem of fitting issues. However, depending upon the Rx, guessing at the PD is still too risky. You put yourself at risk for liabilities. Sometimes the right choice may not make you a fast buck, but it sure will save you from costly ones later. Simply tell the woman that it is not an ethical way to produce eyewear, free yourself of the headaches.


:cheers:

Cowboy

I wouldn't want to carry around two pairs in jail.

I suggest one pair either distance or flat tops and make sure you do them in poly or trivex (remember, it is jail.).

[Joann Raytar]

Rich,

She may also want to make sure that the glasses follow prison guidelines. Some prisons have rules regarding frame markings (no medallions or brand names on the temples for example), restrictions on tint colors (have been used to display gang colors) and frame materials.

I agree with the others about not going with progressives.

[harry888]

Have to disagree with almost all the replies.

What do you folks do for someone in a nursing home? (can also apply to jail)

Let mom buy the glasses and teach her to mark where the pupil is on the demo lens. Then have her return for fabrication.

I've trained many husbands, wives and children how to do a seg height and mark pupils for relatives in nursing homes. They usually take 4 frames with them and have some sort of fashion show.

Harry

Harry

[chip anderson]

Take the money and smile. Forget all the mamby-pamby stuff and if the patient wants quality product with quality services they can either exhibit a lifestyle that doesn't get them in jail or pay you enough to make house (jail) calls.

Look if someone buys a drugstore reader and the P.D. is off 99% of the time they work just fine. Rarely (all too rarely) you will find a patient that says these blank drugstore readers give me headaches or something and seems to love you if you make a good opthalmic reader. The rest of the populace is happy with OTC and they can choose/afford what they want. Unless the distance power was pretty strong (say 3.5 diopters or so), up to 4 mm of pupillary distance won't give them enough prism to upset a criminal.

We don't have to be bleeding hearts for the world and we are provideing a service for a person in semi-desparate circumstances. This is not something you are going present at Johns-Hopkins as a medical break-through of great tallent.

Chip

[Chris Ryser]

Let mom buy the glasses and teach her to mark where the pupil is on the demo lens. Then have her return for fabrication.

I've trained many husbands, wives and children how to do a seg height

Take the money and smile. Forget all the mamby-pamby stuff and if the patient wants quality product with quality services they can either exhibit a lifestyle that doesn't get them in jail or pay you enough to make house (jail) calls.

Let mom do it..........

If you do that..........successfuly, and also show her how to adjust the frame and determine which lens to use................

then we do not need anymore learned and certified opticians we can let the mom's run the optical trade. Maybe we can teach the moms also how to refract and determine a quicky prescription.

That is higly un-professional

In the old days we used to go to hospitals and sell and fit cataract lenses when patients had to lay there for seven days...................and we went to closed conmvents to sell glasses to the nuns and the monks, we never told some mom to do it.

[drk]

I'm totally with Chris, here, especially if you read the "online-spectacle-ordering" posts!

We have to draw a line, somewhere. While it's feasible that you can "make do" from time to time, and some causes are more worthy than others, I THINK GUESSING ON MEASUREMENTS OR PRESCRIPTIONS, OR LETTING A NON-PROFESSIONAL TAKE A MEASUREMENT IS A BREACH OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT, AND WE SHOULD NOT ENDORSE IT. :finger:

But, as a "nice guy", I've done it too.:o I've also given out trial CLs, etc., etc. Ultimately, it leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth.
(P.S. Harry888 is cool, because he sold me a good frame warmer!):cheers:

[Chris Ryser]

(P.S. Harry888 is cool, because he sold me a good frame warmer!):cheers:

What is a good frame warmer ? or what is the alternative? a bunsen burner?

[drk]

What is a good frame warmer ? or what is the alternative? a bunsen burner?

LOL:)

[harry888]

DRK quotes: (P.S. Harry888 is cool, because he sold me a good frame warmer!)


But is there a "self service" sign on that frame warmer"?

LOL-Harry

[shellrob]

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Chris on this. Mom isn't qualified to obtain the proper measurements. Sorry, but the only way would be to get the 2 pairs of glasses for her son or see if she can go to where he purchased his last pair and duplicate the order. Anything else is what Chris said.....very unprofessional and too many risks involved.

[Spexvet]

I would only make the son's glasses if the mom had an old pair of his bifocals that I could resonably duplicate (frame size, bridge width, B measurement especially). When the bridge sizes are similar, you can hold the frames up to each other and get real close at placing the LINED BIFOCALS in the same position.


Chip,
You can be sued from prison. Or "punished" for making glasses that don't meet standards.

PS. Why don't prisons have this type of service available? Charge the inmate (or relative) combat pay, protect the optician adequately, and control the product. Don't want them buying a frame that can be used as a weapon!

[Blake]

Okay, let's set aside all the possible legal problems such as introducing contraband into the prism (metal temples could become weapons) or even allowing an unlicensed person to take measurements and dispense the glasses.

My main concern is that progressives may not be in his best interest. The lack of peripheral vision could be a problem, since he may not see others coming up behind him. I'm also guessing the cosmetic appeal of progressives maybe shouldn't be his top concern.

I kinda agree with spexvet on this one. The prison should have a program to provide glasses for inmates who need them, preferably like the kind military recruits are issued.

[JennyP]

Okay, let's set aside all the possible legal problems such as introducing contraband into the PRISM....

:cheers: Long Day, Blake?? Sorry, I couldnt resist THIS temptation! :)

[shellrob]

First, glasses are not condsidered contraband in the prison system, although they are sometimes used as weapons. You cannot prevent some lonely prisoner from making a weapon out of EVERYTHING. They will. And they have. It's the chance they take. I also do not believe that they should impose some type of service to these prisoner to have them receive eye exams and be able to obtain glasses. We pay enough money as it is for what they get.

[ziggy]

prisons will contract with a local ECP to do exams/eyeware. What sis is wanting to do is something special for her brother. I'll bet bro does not like the goverment issue "birth control glasses".

[Spexvet]

...I also do not believe that they should impose some type of service to these prisoner to have them receive eye exams and be able to obtain glasses. We pay enough money as it is for what they get.

That's why my idea was:

Charge the inmate (or relative) combat pay, protect the optician adequately, and control the product.

Absolutely not paid for by the government. If the inmate weren't in prison, he/she would have pay for them him/herself, right? Or steal them.:angry: :finger:

[Chris Ryser]

Dixon Correctional Center

Nedra Chandler, Warden



During FY 2003, the Dixon Correctional Center Optical Laboratory produced more than 174,000 pairs of glasses. This was the highest amount produced in one year since the inception of the program in 1986. In addition, Dixon Correctional Industries achieved a turn- around rate of shipping 91 percent of the orders in seven days or less. The Optical Lab provided assignments for approximately 85 inmates. During the past year, Correctional Industries has again committed to providing the opportunity for inmates to become American Board of Opticianry Certified Opticians. A number of inmates are currently studying for the test. The optical program provides inmates with a skill that can be used upon the inmate's release from incarceration

(Information provided from the Fiscal Year 2003 Annual Report)

Dixon Correctional Center
Opened: July 1983
Capacity: 1,430
Level 3: High Medium-Security Adult Male
Average Daily Population: 2,208
Total Average Daily Population: 2,208
Average Age: 39
Average Annual Cost