Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Zeiss Gradal Top vs. Varilux Panamic

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    OptiBoard Novice
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    2

    Zeiss Gradal Top vs. Varilux Panamic

    I realize that everyone has they're favorite standard progressive lens, but these two seem to be at the top of everyone's lists. Come one, come all and share your experiences between these two GREAT lenses. Don't forget to say which is your favorite and why!?!

  2. #2
    Panamic= Poor Intermediate. Not a truly Short Corridor. Overpriced.

    Gradal Top= Optics Superior in all regards. Not a short corridor. Doesn't claim to be.

  3. #3
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    Both are very good all-purpose lenses. Varilux are much easier to sell because of the name recognition factor. I wear both, and can switch back and forth easily.
    ...Just ask me...

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Only City in the World built over a Volcano
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    12,996

    Switching

    Spexvet:
    I switch back between ST-28's, 7x28, any number of progressives in both glass and plastic without problems. What do I see best with? Glass 7x28's (20/10) Never have been able to see better than 20/20 with any plastic.
    Last edited by chip anderson; 12-03-2004 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Miss-spelled Spexvet.

  5. #5
    Bad address email on file
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Houston
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet
    Varilux are much easier to sell because of the name recognition factor.
    I tell my patients about the german engineering of the Zeiss lenses and about 99% are willing to give it a try and most of them end up liking them more than Varilux or about the same. Since I don't wear any glasses I can only go by the patient's input and the satisfaction rate which so far Zeiss beats Varilux.
    I'm a proud german and love Zeiss lenses :hammer: but I also have very good luck with Image. I strongly believe patient satisfaction also depends on the optician's attitude and patient relation. I explain in simple terms and have lots of fun and laughs with the patients at the same time, I LOVE what I'm doing (until the boogy man or woman walks through the door, luckily doesn't happen a lot :) )

  6. #6
    Optical Clairvoyant OptiBoard Bronze Supporter Andrew Weiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Brisbane,QLD, Australia
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,397
    Having worn both, and wearing Zeiss Individual also:

    Panamic: agree on intermediate problems, also I found distance power anomolies. Lens is 'way overpriced, claims to be "short corridor" but really isn't. Reading area small-ish. Only advantages I can see is it's availabe with Crizal Alize, and most people in Comforts make a smooth transition to it.

    Gradal Top: Better, more uniform optics all-around. Better intermediate, large reading area. A tiny bit of fuzz in the borders around the cross-cylindar area, but notable only in comparison to Rodenstock. All in all, far better for my purposes than the Panamic. Zeiss' Carat is fine, perhaps not quite as crystalline as Crizal.

    [Also note the Gradal Brevity, their short-corridor lens, which has a wider intermediate than the Gradal Top and eliminates the drop down to the corridor. It's my current favorite short-corridor lens.]

    And, my bid for the best, most underused lenses in the US:

    Rodenstock Life 2 and Progressive AT: Clear, undistorted distance vision, great reading vision, superior optics all around. Intermediate corridor is wider than either Panamic or Gradal. The AT in particular is a VERY reasonably-priced lens, available in 1.56 and 1.6. However, as far as I know only the Life 2 in CR39 is available with Carat; otherwise, you have to settle for Duralux.

  7. #7
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,388
    Interested in another's opinion of Progressiv AT and Life 2. I used these about 2 yrs ago without patient adaptation problems. (Also, the Multigressiv, but it didn't seem to justify itself). The Colormatic Extra was very good, IMO. The mid-index 1.56 polymer used for the AT was great. The cost was obscenely low.

    Problem: my w/s lab had to order the AT (then the Life-C) from Rodenstock here in Cols. Oh, and it was a flawed system. If there was a problem with glazing, or there were irregularities in the molded lenses (and I caught a few that passed inspection), the whole process had to start over. They would either be here quickly, or very slowly. It wasn't consistent!

    Zeiss is "the hardcore optician's" progressive. Brevity is quite awesome. Their computer lens is somewhat cumbersome to understand. I think the Top is superb, and it's finally available with enough good materials.

    Varilux is "the average good opticians" progressive. I use this day in and day out. I do think that its acceptance rate is unsurpassed. People like this lens. Brand recognition is helpful.

    Dumb analogy: Zeiss is a set of well-fitted RGP lenses. Varilux Panamic is a year's supply of Acuvue Advance.:)

    Non-Essilor lab guys like the Zeiss. Imagine that!:)

    Bottom line: I'm only 41. Can't wait to go presbyopic to see if it passes the eye doctor beta test.:idea:

  8. #8
    Optical Clairvoyant OptiBoard Bronze Supporter Andrew Weiss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Brisbane,QLD, Australia
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    1,397
    Quote Originally Posted by drk
    Problem: my w/s lab had to order the AT (then the Life-C) from Rodenstock here in Cols. Oh, and it was a flawed system. If there was a problem with glazing, or there were irregularities in the molded lenses (and I caught a few that passed inspection), the whole process had to start over. They would either be here quickly, or very slowly. It wasn't consistent!
    Agree completely on Rodenstock's ordering and delivery dilemmas. They are a horror show, have been ever since they moved from Alpharetta GA up to Ohio. One solution: Rodenstock authorized a number of small labs to surface their products and low prices. There's one in our area (eastern MA), and they have a more consistent turn-around time than Rodenstock does. One benefit of using them is that plus lenses are actually surfaced for decent edge thickness, which is otherwise a problem with the moulded AT 68mm blank. I'd see if any labs like that are in your area.

  9. #9
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,388
    Andrew, thanks for the tip.
    I'm sufficiently satisfied with the competitor's brands, for now.

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Down in a hole!
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    13,078
    DRK: The Image has worked very well for me. Maybe you did have a "sampling error",....maybe not your cup of tea. For the price though, you really can't beat it. Have you read the Dr. Sheedy report on various progressives? Very interesting! The Image, Gradal Top, Shamir Genesis all scored high, and much higher then the Panamic! Is the report valid, or a real world indication of true "best", or is it just another smokescreen, who knows? As a side not though, I just fit a patient with 9 pairs of Airwear Panamics(5 clear 4 polarized and all with Alize AR) and he truly loved them. He was a previous Comfort wearer. Good thread!


    Fezz
    :cheers:

  11. #11
    Sawptician PAkev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Lake Winola, Pennsylvania
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    906
    We opened our shop in a small ophthalmology practice five years ago and started selling almost exclusively Varilux product. Our Essilor rep at the time informed us their co op program would make utilizing Varilux product more profitable for our practice. Non adapts were occasional and replaced without hassle. However, when we wanted to utilize our accrued co op to purchase dispensing aids two years later Essilor informed us that we didn't do enough volume to be involved in their co op program.

    So.............

    Two weeks later a Zeiss rep came through our doors and encouraged us to try their product with two complimentary vouchers. In addition we were informed of their co op opportunity (Zeiss experts program) which was far more liberal than that required by Essilor and therefore made selling their premium product more profitable. Our PAL non adaps still happen once in a while but are less frequent than when using Essilor product.

    We have a glass processing factory in our area (Schott Optical) owned by Zeiss so their name is familiar to many of our consumers. We still sell Varilux product here and there and I like the concept of the no line bifocal design which the Liberty affords.

    We recently utilized our Zeiss co op to purchase a dispensing aid (see product reviews ..... Icam) which has incresed option sales with phenonemal results.

    My .02 woth
    Kevin

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Down in a hole!
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    13,078
    I have been a strong supporter of Zeiss. I tried the Panamic when it first came out and had some adaption problems. We have very few adaption problems, and were very dissapointed in the Panamic. Plus, the extra cost? For what? So, I feel that the Zeiss Top is far superior to the Panamic. I have also been using more and more of the Shamir Genesis and Piccolo product and am very impressed. We use a lot of the Younger Image also.


    Fezz
    :cheers:

  13. #13
    What's up? drk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Occupation
    Optometrist
    Posts
    9,388
    Fezz: I've put on a pair of the Younger Image. It seems to be a favorite "inexpensive" progressive. I believe Maui Jim is using it with their new progressive Rx program.

    Problem to me is that it seems fairly high on the peripheral astigmatism. Your thoughts? Do I have "sampling error"?

    I think you definitely have "sampling error" on the Panamic. We've put through so many of those without problems that I KNOW it's an acceptable lens. Whether Top is better, or better for the money...that's the real discussion.

  14. #14
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    On my soapbox
    Occupation
    Dispensing Optician
    Posts
    3,760
    Quote Originally Posted by drk
    Fezz: I've put on a pair of the Younger Image. It seems to be a favorite "inexpensive" progressive. I believe Maui Jim is using it with their new progressive Rx program.

    Problem to me is that it seems fairly high on the peripheral astigmatism. Your thoughts? Do I have "sampling error"?

    I think you definitely have "sampling error" on the Panamic. We've put through so many of those without problems that I KNOW it's an acceptable lens. Whether Top is better, or better for the money...that's the real discussion.
    When I learned about the Image I thought that it would be a great lens. It was chosen the "Lens of The Year" by the OLA (I think), comes in just about every material, and has a great price. I got a pair that I wore for about two days, and never put on again. I love my Panamics, Ellipses, Tops, Summit ECPs, Comforts, and Ovations, but I couldn't take the Image.
    ...Just ask me...

  15. #15
    One of the worst people here
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Occupation
    Other Eyecare-Related Field
    Posts
    8,331
    Quote Originally Posted by Spexvet
    When I learned about the Image I thought that it would be a great lens. It was chosen the "Lens of The Year" by the OLA (I think), comes in just about every material, and has a great price. I got a pair that I wore for about two days, and never put on again. I love my Panamics, Ellipses, Tops, Summit ECPs, Comforts, and Ovations, but I couldn't take the Image.
    I question the OLA awards. This years winners were not always the best in every field in my opinion (not close to for some categories).

  16. #16
    sub specie aeternitatis Pete Hanlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Hickory Creek, TX
    Occupation
    Lens Manufacturer
    Posts
    4,964
    Being an obvious and biased "Varilux guy," I'm not even going to try and proffer an opinion here. I do appreciate the good discussion, however, since it contains some really useful input from dispensing professionals.

    Kevin, if you have the time and inclination, I'd like to delve further into your experience with our rewards program (not necessarily to try to "switch you back"- just to better understand your impressions). Just email or call my office number sometime, if you like- I'll be happy to send you some product vouchers for your time. I have some (limited) input into our programs...
    Pete Hanlin, ABOM
    Vice President Professional Services
    Essilor of America

    http://linkedin.com/in/pete-hanlin-72a3a74

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Zeiss and Walmart
    By fvc2020 in forum General Optics and Eyecare Discussion Forum
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 11-20-2006, 03:55 PM
  2. Zeiss Introduces New Promotion for Gradal® Individual
    By Newsroom in forum Optical Industry News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-27-2004, 02:16 PM
  3. Zeiss Introduces Gradal® Top 1.67 Transitions® Gray
    By Newsroom in forum Optical Industry News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-21-2003, 01:58 PM
  4. Zeiss Introduces Customized Progressive Lens
    By Newsroom in forum Optical Industry News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-23-2003, 05:36 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-19-2003, 03:07 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •