Fireworks at the Pistons - Pacers basketball game Friday night.
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=268126
Having been ridiculed for being a Philadelphia fan, and a NHL hockey fan, it's nice to see that this type of behavior is not isolated to my city and my second favorite sport. Now, if someone in another city will only throw snowballs at Santa, maybe the stigma will go away...
Fortunately the stigma that plagues Philly and Detroit (or even Oakland) is not representative of the majority of the fans in those cities. I thought it was really ugly between Artest and Wallace, but seeing fans succumbing to the mob mentality is just indescribably sickening.Originally Posted by Spexvet
These guys should be suspended for the season. And I am sure there will be some criminal charges. You're making this kind of money for throwing a ball into a hoop, deal with the crowd's hostility. Fools.
Which guys should be suspended for the season? Wallace will certainly get something for retalitating against Artest's hard foul, and it's likely that Artest will get something for going into the stands after a fan threw an object at him, but there is a good argument that the rest of the players were either breaking up fights or acting in self defense.
Regardless of how much money you make, hostility in the form of verbal abuse is different than hostility in the form of physical abuse. Artest's track record shows him to be a fool, but there were plenty more of them in the stands in Detroit last night. As they've been saying on SportsCenter, there was plenty of blame to go around.
The guys who attacked the people in the stands. Sorry, the players have a vested interest in maintaining some civility, the onus is on them, not the fans, to hold themselves in line. Rowdy fans are routinely ejected from games by security, this isn't up to the players. You want to dirty foul, that's one thing, but jumping into the stands and throwing punches, no way. And if you can't stand the jeers and boos, get a real job.
Artest didn't react to jeers and boos... he reacted to an object being thrown at him (i.e. the altercation between players and fans started when a fan threw an object at a player).
Everyone has a vested interest in maintaining civility so the onus of maintaining it is on everyone. With that in mind, it's ridiculously hypocritical to say that the players should have self-control but it's OK that the fans don't. The fan should not have thrown a cup at Artest and Artest should not have jumped into the stands. After that the acts of players rushing into the stands can be viewed as self-defense, but the acts of fans throwing food, drinks, and chairs cannot.
Paper cup thrown versus very, very large man lunging into a crowd throwing a punch, yeah that's the same thing. Do you seriously think if I threw a cup of beer on you and you retaliated by punching me out that the judge before whom we would be hauled would view these actions as the same???
Fans get into games by buying a (insanely expensive) ticket; therefore any sort of cretin can get into the stands, no way to prevent that until after the fact. There is a way to prevent players from exhibiting this thuggish behavior though, suspend them, fine them severely enough and it won't happen.
And no, the fans do not have the same vested interest as the players--if the NBA goes away tomorrow, who suffers the most?
A paper cup? It looked like a hard plastic drink container with ice and liquid... something that could have hurt him. A judge would probably find fault with the fan who crossed the line and assaulted a player who was in the midst of an emotionally charged game. He would probably sternly remind the fan that the game is for the players to play and for the fans to watch.
But what about the other fans who were throwing things at the players from the "safety" of the stands? Eject them with 45 seconds left in a game that is about to be called. The onus of maintaining civility is not just on the bigger person or the richer person or the person retailiating to an object being thrown at him... it is on all of us.
The NBA isn't going away tomorrow. If anything, more people are going to be watching this rivalry. On Christmas Day, Detroit vs. Indiana was to warm up the TV viewing audience for what is anticipated to be one of the most watched games ever... Kobe vs. Shaq. Now, there is a good chance that the opener will get the better ratings!
First of all, if you don't like the price of the ticket, then don't go to the game. And if you go to the game, abide by the rules on the back of the ticket... you watch the game and you let the players play the game. You don't have the right to throw things at players just because you think you have paid for an "insanely expensive" ticket.
Secondly, if the players perceive that the NBA isn't protecting them from the thuggish behavior of fans, then they will strike until it's rectified.
Fans do not have the right to chuck stuff at players. However, players do not have the right to jump into the crowd, knock over people who were not involved, and pummel a fan. Additionally, players do not have the right to walk up to a fan who is yelling at them and sucker punch then. Finally, players do not have the right to run up to someone who doesn't see them and sucker punch him.
The security at these places are impecable. In the last few years they have really picked up security. People can say that they were not doing their job, but the player never allowed them to do their job.
If you think this was the first time that a fan has chucked a hard object at a player you are wrong. It was just one of the first times that the player acted in a completely pathetic manner. Those two players should go to jail.
Let's see, NBA average attendance is down; TV ratings are down.
I know, go on strike! Brilliant!!!!!
There is a criminal element in professional sports--like anything else--that needs to dealt with swiftly and severely.
Then so should the fans who threw objects.
agreed. Neither action is condonable.
Attendance and ratings are irrelevant. If the players perceive that the NBA isn't protecting them from the thuggish behavior of fans, then they should strike.
That's all I'm saying. There is plenty of blame to go around...
Artest should not have tried to stop Wallace’s dunk.
Wallace should not have pushed Artest.
Artest should not have layed down on the scorer’s table.
The fan should not have thrown the cup at Artest.
Artest should not have gone into the stands after the fan.
Jackson should not have gone into the stands to break up the fight.
Jackosn should not have swung at a fan.
The other players should not have gone into the stands to break up the fight.
Other fans should not have started throwing punches at the players.
The stadium should not have served alcohol.
The stadium should not have had such weak security near the court.
Etc, etc, etc...
Hey, maybe the bottom line is that this is the players fault... Detroit's players! If they had played a bit better defense in the first half, then Wallace wouldn’t have been so frustrated with Artest’s hard foul late in the game when Indiana was up big.
Last edited by 1968; 11-20-2004 at 05:53 PM. Reason: spelling
Football and Baseball are the only two sports left in the US.
I guess you didn't see the Clemson/South Carolina game today.
Last edited by 1968; 11-20-2004 at 08:23 PM. Reason: spelling
I haven't seen the brawl, but have heard about it on the radio.
Self defense?
If there's a hornets nest, I'm not going to climb the tree that it's hanging in, I'm going the other way.
If the players were afraid they'd be harmed, why didn't they go to their lockeroom, or stand next to a nice policeman?:bbg:
Wasn't that football?
So would I, but Artest isn’t as level-headed as you or I… and so rather than getting ready to play Boston on Tuesday, he will be sitting out the rest of the season. Anyone think that will change how he behaves in the future?
Last edited by 1968; 11-21-2004 at 11:16 PM.
Nope. It was footbrawl.
Charles Barkley was interviewed about this, and said that if a player has a drink thrown on him, he should "beat the hell" out of the person. Alrighty then. Guess the idea of proportional response is news to these guys. They will be learning about it pretty quickly once this gets into the criminal justice system.
Looks like this little episode will cost Artest $6 million. What an idiot.
Loks like Artest will have plenty of time now to promote that rap albumn.
Being from Indiana... a lot of people here think that the punishment is too severe.. I love the Pacers, but Artest is out of control.
Jackson was also deserving of the suspensions, but O'Neil didn't make it into the stands, and does he deserve 25games, only 5 less than Jackson who was in the middle of the fray?
I guess us Hoosiers are just sick seeing our team go out of control, and because of one bad boy, drastically reducing the teams flexiblity and bench.
If the head cashier at the Wal-mart punched a customer who threw a drink at her, she'd be fired immediately. I think Artest should have met the same fate.
Like Barney Fife used to say - gotta nip it in the bud!
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