Progressive Lens Differances

[ksquared]

I recently changed from a Sola progressive (xl gold without anti-reflective coating) to a Zeiss GT with AR. Would changing the type of lens (Sola to Zeiss) have any affect on the quality of the distance vision? The view from the Zeiss lens seems to be “softer”, almost liquid and a tad more comfortable at near distances than the Sola. The negatives seem to be in the distance vision. Not nearly as clear and in focus as the Sola’s. The Sola lens provide clear vision at all distances but don’t have the same liquid feel as the Zeiss. Can someone shed some light on what may be causing the differences? Thanks in advance.

[sjthielen]

We would need more info, such as your Rx, base curves of lenses and the frame choice.

[ksquared]

We would need more info, such as your Rx, base curves of lenses and the frame choice.

Both lens (SOla and Zeiss) are Aspherical. If they have a BC I don't know what they used as it wasn't specified on the lab order..
Sola RX
-12.50 +0.50 160 +2.00
-13.75 +0.50 36 +2.00

Sola Frames
A Measurement = 48 (eye)
B Measurement = 32 (vertical)
Bridge = 19
PD = 63
Seg Height = 23

Zeiss RX
-11.25 -0.75 060 +2.00
-13.00 -0.50 155 +2.00
Zeiss Frames
A Measurement = 44 (eye)
B Measurement = 32.5 (vertical)
Bridge = 21
PD = 63
Seg Height = 20

Zeiss RX - refraction has been verified by 3 differant practitioners (2 OD's and 1 MD)

[Chris Ryser]

The negatives seem to be in the distance vision. Not nearly as clear and in focus as the Sola’s. The Sola lens provide clear vision at all distances but don’t have the same liquid feel as the Zeiss. Can someone shed some light on what may be causing the differences?

Optical qualities do NOT recognize brand names. If the proper optical value for a prescription has been determined and made, the result has to be the same.

The only time a remarkable difference in a visual effect could occur is a change in base curve or a matter of adjustment, or you have to get used to it.

[sjthielen]

Has anyone checked the vertex distance of your glasses? also they may want to check the amount of facial curve the new glasses have in comarison to your old. With an RX as strong as yours the smallest adjustments to your frame can make all the difference in the world.

[Bev Heishman]

What progressive doyou have. Zeiss has an AR that is GET. This means it has a gold reflectance. This is good supposedly for night driving. Is the progressive a Gradal HS, Top, Brevity or Individual?

[For-Life]

What progressive doyou have. Zeiss has an AR that is GET. This means it has a gold reflectance. This is good supposedly for night driving. Is the progressive a Gradal HS, Top, Brevity or Individual?

I think by GT she meant Gradal Top.

[ksquared]

Optical qualities do NOT recognize brand names. If the proper optical value for a prescription has been determined and made, the result has to be the same.

Are all progressive pretty much the same same regardles of the brand name? For some reason I thought there may be differances in them which is why there are so many to choose from. The Zeis RX is supposed to be better than the RX used for the Sola lens. I've had 3 differant refractions and they all come closest to the RX used for the Zeiss.

The only time a remarkable difference in a visual effect could occur is a change in base curve or a matter of adjustment, or you have to get used to it.

It's my understanding (which may be incorrect ) that spherical lens are made in a range of BCs. THe lab selects the lens with a BC closest to the RX . The aspheric lens used for the progressives appear to be completely flat across the front. Do aspheric lens come in a range of differant BC like the Sperical or does all of the grind take place on the back of the lens? We've tried adjusting the Zeiss using the nose pad to position the centers in different spots. The intermediate and reading did finally settle into excellent focus but the distance didn't change. I'm also getting a lot of star busting and have a hard time seeing at night or under low light conditions.

Has anyone checked the vertex distance of your glasses? also they may want to check the amount of facial curve the new glasses have in comarison to your old. With an RX as strong as yours the smallest adjustments to your frame can make all the difference in the world.

Interesting that you should mention vertex distance. It was specified on the Sola RX but not the Zeiss. I've gotten different opinions on this depending on who I ask. Some say yes - especially with this RX, some say -doesn't need to be specified that this can be adjusted once the lens are in the frame. I can change the distance focus by moving the Sola frames back and forth but can't see any differences with the Zeiss. I don't have as much play in the Zeiss adjustment however, moving them further away makes the focus worse. The vertex distance has not been checked between the 2 frames. The curvatures look to be the same when viewed from the top.

What progressive do you have. Zeiss has an AR that is GET. This means it has a gold reflectance. This is good supposedly for night driving. Is the progressive a Gradal HS, Top, Brevity or Individual?

Zeiss Gradal Top. I don't know what AR was used, it just says AR on the lab order. It does have a gold reflection. There are also some marks in the coating but not sure if these marks (a few straight lines and squiggles) would have an effect on the viison quality.

[Chris Ryser]

Are all progressive pretty much the same same regardles of the brand name? For some reason I thought there may be differances in them which is why there are so many to choose from.

The manufacturers and some retailers want you to believe that there are huge differences between the many brands out in the field. There will be some small differences in width and height of progressive part and size of reading segment .............but they are still the basic same product. More so than than all cars have 4 wheels and get you from A-Z.

I don't know what AR was used, it just says AR on the lab order. It does have a gold reflection

All AR coatings are the same.........again........the brand name manufacturers make you believe that only theirs is the best, the sales reps are doing their best to brainwash the retailers to get them on their side.

AR coatings are all made in the same type machines, use the same basic materials to do the coating with the exception of the "hue" which is the color you can see on the coating. This is an added layer of metal oxyde, depending which one you use will give you different color hues.

[ksquared]

There will be some small differences in width and height of progressive part and size of reading segment .............but they are still the basic same product. More so than than all cars have 4 wheels and get you from A-Z.

Do you know if there is a signiticant differance between a Zeiss and Sola in the width/height of the progressive and/or the size of the reading?

All AR coatings are the same

SInce the AR coating should be helping with the glare instead of making is worse and the lens are pretty much the same, than perhaps it's the RX. It's been checked before but will have it redone. THanks for your (and the others who responded) help. Cheers.

[sjthielen]

I think the problem you are having in the distance is do to the fact your sola lens RX is a little more minus which is good for distance vision at night, do to the fact that as your pupils enlarge we become more myopic. The new zeiss lenses are a little more on the plus side which is giving you better clarity at near. Vertex distance with your Rx is important. The doctor checks your Rx with a vertex distance of 12mm, if your glasses are not at the same vertex distance your Rx would be slightly different also.

[Chris Ryser]

.................................your sola lens RX is a little more minus which is good for distance vision at night,

.................The new zeiss lenses are a little more on the plus side which is giving you better clarity at near.

I did not know taht if you buy Zeiss you get a little more.................and if you buy Sola you ghet a little less ...............prescription.

I thought that in the optical business one would supply a prescription right on, not a little more of this and a little less of that depending on the brand of the lens.

[drk]

Chris, I think he's referring to the possibility that the refraction was incorrect. An incorrect overplus will lead to the symptoms the patient describes.

As a very related note: there is something we don't fully understand about people. I swear that some people have more sensory imput from vision than others, and it drives them and us crazy. A disproportionate number are myopic, hence the term "picky myope". (While this may sound perjorative, it's meant affectionately.) It's almost like people who are too sensitive to smells, are sensitive to itchy clothes, have to have things quiet, or have sensitive palates.

Identifiying the problem is a baby-step towards a solution?

[slaboff]

I recently changed from a Sola progressive (xl gold without anti-reflective coating) to a Zeiss GT with AR. Would changing the type of lens (Sola to Zeiss) have any affect on the quality of the distance vision? The view from the Zeiss lens seems to be “softer”, almost liquid and a tad more comfortable at near distances than the Sola. The negatives seem to be in the distance vision. Not nearly as clear and in focus as the Sola’s. The Sola lens provide clear vision at all distances but don’t have the same liquid feel as the Zeiss. Can someone shed some light on what may be causing the differences? Thanks in advance.

hi karen, i believe that what you are experiencing is a difference between what we call a hard progressive design and a soft progressive design when you are talking about the liquid feel... i am not very familiar with the xl gold.. but i am somewhat familiar with the zeiss gradal top... it is a soft design with a wide reading and computer area... i also think that you are having trouble with a material change. i believe that the xl gold is 1.60 high index and the zeiss gt is 1.67... with your high power i am willing to bet that the base curves are similar... its true that there are varied base curves throughout a progressive lens but there is a general base curve to all lenses... personally i have found a difference in fitting different progressives from one type to another... i have had the most success with the shamir genesis virtually no remakes... there is a difference in design....less swim, smoother transition to near and a wider reading area... i think checking the wrap of the frame, vertex distance, pantoscopic tilt and material index are all important factors in you prescription... also i noticed that you had alot of axis change on both eyes that could be causing you some problems requiring alot of time to get used to them... i have fit a the zeiss gt in the past and had a moderate to high percentage of non adapts so i stopped fitting them... i think they have some swim issues in the distance... at least thats what my patients told me

Don

[sjthielen]

Any progresive desiegn that is of any quality works fine as long as the dispenser knows the desiegn consept of the lens. Chris, I was refering to the Rx Karen gave to us in an earlier post. Lens desiegns do not need Rx alterations, however fitting crosses do not always work best in the same placement between desiegns.

[drk]

The most practical advice: Remake it in XL Gold and be done with it!

[Joann Raytar]

also i noticed that you had alot of axis change on both eyes

I noticed that and the .75D drop in right lens power and wondered about it as well. ksquared is also wearing frames with similar B measurements but the two pair of glasses have fitting heights that differ by 3mm.

ksquared, what are the frames made of, plastic or metal? Also, have you taken both pair of glasses into your Optician so that person could compare and verify the fitting?

[sjthielen]

I will bet that a remake in the Sola lens will not take care of it. It is a combination of frame fit and Rx that is the problem. Also the Zeiss GT is available in both 1.6 and 1.67 index.

[ksquared]

I think the problem you are having in the distance is do to the fact your sola lens RX is a little more minus which is good for distance vision at night, do to the fact that as your pupils enlarge we become more myopic. The new zeiss lenses are a little more on the plus side which is giving you better clarity at near. Vertex distance with your Rx is important. The doctor checks your Rx with a vertex distance of 12mm, if your glasses are not at the same vertex distance your Rx would be slightly different also.

My computer vision is slightly better with the ZEISS than with the Sola. My Sola RX does have a little more minus but I also tend to wear my glasses down my nose a bit as it provides better vision. THe Zeiss optician said the vertex doesn't need to be specified and it wasn't even on my RX. They said they could adjust the nose pads to account for any differances. THIs puzzles me a bit because when we adjust the nose pads it moves the optic center of the lens.

Identifiying the problem is a baby-step towards a solution?

I live with my vison 7 x 24. THe optician only sees me a breif period and than under artificial conditions. I'm convinced that the only way I'm going to get this resolved is by underatanding was is causing the differances in the 1st place.

what you are experiencing is a difference between what we call a hard progressive design and a soft progressive design when you are talking about the liquid feel

THat makes sence and I think I prefer the soft feel if only the distance was better.

there is a difference in design....less swim, smoother transition to near and a wider reading area...

WHat is swim? Whenever I move my eyes or head to look in a new direction, it seems that the focus is blurry (with the Zeiss) and than took a few moments to stabilize again. Almost like my vision was in fixed postion. OK for near distances but a little disconcretining when active.

also i noticed that you had alot of axis change on both eyes that could be causing you some problems

I was a little concerned about what the axis change would do also. But that seemed to be the easiert part. WHen I 1st put on the Zeiss my vison seemed to rotate slightly (not sure if I can discribe the feeling) but the feeling quickly went away. After I switched back to my SOlas, it changed again but took longer to adjust.

The most practical advice: Remake it in XL Gold and be done with it!

I guess I could do that but I'm a little reluctant to try this again untill I understand a little more

what are the frames made of, plastic or metal? Also, have you taken both pair of glasses into your Optician so that person could compare and verify the fitting?

Metal frames, 1.67 index. THe optician says they've done their best and doesn't understand why I'm having these problems. THe lens were made as specified and they had already rechecked the RX. However, they didn't compare the 2 glasses to see what the differances were. All we did was adjust the nose pads.

I will bet that a remake in the Sola lens will not take care of it. It is a combination of frame fit and Rx that is the problem.

Looks like I need to start over again with both the optician and the RX. It is beginning to sound like the issues may have multiple causes. Thanks for all your help, opinions and your patience with my questions. I really want to get this right (my glasses) the next time and feel that the more I know, the better chance I'll have. Understanding the causes can lead to solutions or at least help point in the right direction. Right?

[Chris Ryser]

The optician says they've done their best and doesn't understand why I'm having these problems.....................................

....................WHen I 1st put on the Zeiss my vison seemed to rotate slightly (not sure if I can discribe the feeling) but the feeling quickly went away. After I switched back to my SOlas, it changed again but took longer to adjust....................

.................Metal frames, 1.67 index

Assuming the optician is right, you are probably an oversensitive person and you get disturbed by the lateral distortion which can be a bit different from the old pair.

If the old pair was not in 1.67 which is a flatter base curve and will provide a different feel on the new pair.

[ksquared]

If the old pair was not in 1.67 which is a flatter base curve and will provide a different feel on the new pair.

So the BC comes from the index thickness? You are probably correct that the Sola lenses are 1.6. The Zeiss is most definitely 1.67.

I think the problem you are having in the distance is do to the fact your sola lens RX is a little more minus which is good for distance vision at night, do to the fact that as your pupils enlarge we become more myopic.

When I wear my Sola RX during the day. I push them down my noise slightly to get the best vision. When I wear them at night, positioning them as close to my eyes as I can get them gives me the best vision. I’m assuming that by moving the lens position away I’m increasing the + power and than moving them closer I’m increasing the – power.

The Zeiss RX if different. Positioning them further away from my eyes, makes the far vision worse so we have them as close to my eye as they would go. My night vision was not good at all.

Hadn't realized we are more myopic at night. THIs makes perfect sence and it would seem that the Sola RX may be slightly over corrected and the Zeis under-corrected. But than there is the matter of the vertex. It was specified on the Sola RX at 15 and not specified at all on the Zeiss. I don’t think that the vertex of either frames has ever been measured. How does an optician measure the frame vertex?



After a further review of all of the replies… I have decided to take both RX’s to another OD. Explain the difference effects I’m getting and ask that we compare the RXs and find the best correction. I’ll make sure the vertex is specified on the RX this time. Hopefully this will take care of any RX issues.

The lens design may be more of a challenge. Perhaps if I find an optician who is #1 an experienced lens designer (not to imply that the Zeiss wasn’t a good optician, it just may be that they hadn’t encountered these issues before) and #2 myopic (1st hand experience with some of my issues could be very useful), I beleive there's a good chance of success. Thanks to all your feedback and even the different opinions, I have a much better understanding, a lot more confidence and perhaps a little more discernment this time around. I really can’t thank you enough for all of the help.

[Robert Martellaro]

Karen,

Both lenses (esp. the Rt) may be over-plused. Could be due to accommodative spasm/pseudomyopia and/or the glasses sitting to far from the eyes. Confirm this by using a minus trial lens over eyeglasses while looking at a far distance object like a street sign. If the distance vision clears have the doctor do a dry (without drops) refraction. Compare the doctors and the wearers vertex distance, the latter by using a distometer. Let us know what happens. Your XL gold lenses are Spectralite by the way.


Robert

[ksquared]

Assuming the optician is right, you are probably an oversensitive person and you get disturbed by the lateral distortion which can be a bit different from the old pair.

I very well could be an oversensitive but you (actually the optician in this case) will need to convince my eyes 1st. I've been able to collect all of my RXs from the past several years. I see differant axis, changes in power, etc. One year my R eye had a lot more minus and the left a lot less. (I even remeber commenting on this one at the time only to be told that as we age our eyes get better.) they must also get worse as the following year the L eye went back to being the eye with the most minus (the way it had always been) and my r eye with less. One of the recent RXs even had 2 diopter less minus in both eyes. Looking through my records I was beginning to think it really is a miricle that I can see at all. THe only commonality in all this was my vision. My eyes managed to adjust to whatever I was looking through (although some specs took a little longer than others). My eyes even had to adjust to the Solas. THe R lens corridor is not centered (probably the incorrect termanology so please forgive). Imagine how happy my eyes will be if I can get the proper fit and adjustments. Both of which I beleive are possible.

I do admit to enjoying details and taking a logical view of the world. I tend to beleive every issue probably has a logical solution if you take (or have) the time to find it. I realize the eye is very complex (yep, I bought some text books on optics since I don't have the time to go back to school right now) and that there are lots of variables. But I am convinced that I can get a pair of glasses made that will give me the vision I know my eyes are capable of. I think my oversensitivity will be much dimished when that happens.
CHeers.

PS

Both lenses (esp. the Rt) may be over-plused. Could be due to accommodative spasm/pseudomyopia and/or the glasses sitting to far from the eyes. Confirm this by using a minus trial lens over eyeglasses while looking at a far distance object like a street sign. If the distance vision clears have the doctor do a dry (without drops) refraction. Compare the doctors and the wearers vertex distance, the latter by using a distometer. Let us know what happens. Your XL gold lenses are Spectralite by the way.

Good observations and recommendations. THanks! I'll let you know what transpires after my next refraction.

[chip anderson]

Since you read the texts on optics you should realize that the closer the lens is to your eye the better you will see. Get yourself a pair of hard contact lenses, use the glasses only to find the contacts with in the morning and your troubles will go away.



Chip:cheers:

[ksquared]

Since you read the texts on optics you should realize that the closer the lens is to your eye the better you will see. Get yourself a pair of hard contact lenses, use the glasses only to find the contacts with in the morning and your troubles will go away.

I've only gotten through the 1st chapter which covers the structure and image formation. The chapters on how to correct refraction errors are a ways away. I would love to get myself another pair of RGP's. Unfortuantly, the 2 CLSA members I found in my area only make the contacts, they don't fit them. It's getting increasingly difficult to find a practitioner who is familier with RCs. Most have gone to SC or have switched their focus to Lasek (or so it seems.) This can be my next little project.