What's happening in Pittsburgh ? A rep stopped in today and said that she is having a tough time in Pitssburgh due to Davis Vision moving in to the area and signing up some big employers. She mentioned that many of her accounts are putting in lower end (she's a "big 5" company rep). She went on to say that in areas where accounts didnt sign up for Davis, a deal was struck with Walmarts and that they will now be providers.
Has anybody heard anything about this?
Wal-Mart has been working on a viable insurance program for at least 3 years. They were having some trouble getting it up off the ground, I guess they may have hired some one from Cole or Eyemed. They also started a safety vision program a few years back, I hear that is gaining steam too.
Paul:cheers:
:angry: :angry: :angry: WAL-MART....
DAVIS VISION.....LENSCRAFTERS....SEARS....PEARLE....VSP....THEY WANT IT ALL! CORPORATE AMERICA........DRIVEN BY GREED....THE INDEPENDENT'S GREATEST ENEMY......LUXOTTICA THE BIGGEST SHARK IN OPTICAL WATERS......WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT TWENTY YEARS AGO.....:angry: :angry: :angry:
Originally Posted by Johns
What I have heard is that Davis has struck a deal with Highmark, far and away the biggest insurance player in western PA. The independent can participate in the plan (s) but have to send all plan work (no inhouse edging) to Davis, which of course the chains don't have to do. Not to mention the fee structure is what you would expect. (I don't have details, just heard this from some industry folks at meeting). This is the same deal being challenged in Maryland I understand.
Davis Viison is beginning to establish a stronger presence in Pennsylvania due to the Clarity Vision aquisition. Although many folks still have the Clarity Vision plans such as Opti-Choice, Pennvision, VueFlex, etc. it is my understanding these will be replaced with the traditional Davis plan when the suscribers contracts are up for renewal.
Unfortunately, too few dispensers get involved or want to get involved in the business end of things. This is the complacency that often develops opportunities for programs like Davis Vision to sell their Idea they can do a better job at providing Vision Care. Only after kinking to the unfair and unprofessional demands of these programs do many folks realize a dismal success.
It is not too early to inform Clarity Vision patients about your concerns of a potentially compromised quality of vision care if they become limited to the standard of care which Davis Vision has a reputation of suscribing to. Hopefully this will make it back to the Human Resources department for consideration of alternative vision programs when the contract is up for renewal to keep your patient base away from Davis Vision.
Kevin
chm2023: "What I have heard is that Davis has struck a deal with Highmark"
Indeed there is a deal. Highmark owns Davis and Clarity.
Bill West: "DAVIS VISION.....LENSCRAFTERS....SEARS....PEARLE....VSP. ...THEY WANT IT ALL! CORPORATE AMERICA........DRIVEN BY GREED....THE INDEPENDENT'S GREATEST ENEMY......LUXOTTICA THE BIGGEST SHARK IN OPTICAL WATERS......WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT TWENTY YEARS AGO....."
It is all relative to one's time reference. If we were to look back 40 years or so, we'd see a world controlled to a great degree by AO and B&L. In fact the government moved in and required significant divestitures. Market shares today are not out of line with other consumer products nor with our industry historically.
Over time smart companies win and dumb ones lose. There are small company examples and big ones in both circumstances. Also of note, some smart companies become dumb and some dumb companies become smart.
It's easy to blame problems on the big guys. It's harder to run a smart company but certainly possible and many readers here are doing so.
Davis is just fighting back, trying to survive.
They lost the contract here for Massachusetts blue cross. They are strong in PA because they have the same owners as that state's blue cross
It will be tough for the low end vision plans now that Cole managed care has combined with Luxottica. The only low end provider left is Walmart.
Harry
Last edited by harry888; 10-19-2004 at 09:13 PM.
:angry: :angry: :angry: I was in optical 45 years ago and American optical and Bausch Lomb were strickly wholesale. before the days of the large chains the market share was not like it is today...period. it really has nothing to do with smart and dumb but rather big bucks. i know some rather smart people who have got their butt kicked by big buck chains.i'm doing great but i still don't like the way things are going. it will be more difficult for an independent to get started. ASK THE NEW OD'S. I AM INDEPENDENT i turned davis down and vsp and eyecare america i don't regret it. by the way most opticians work for chains or doctors and if you are not independent i don't think you know a lot about business. who do you work for....honestly.:angry: :angry: :angry:
Last edited by Bill West; 10-20-2004 at 09:56 AM. Reason: CHANGE
I'm fully aware that AO and B&L were not retail. They were however in lenses, frames, sunwear, contacts and labs. They were very broad based and had very large market shares. My point was that your comment "WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT TWENTY YEARS AGO" in reference to evil giants is relative to when one makes the comparison. We are at a different place than we were 20 years ago but it is not far different from where we've been before.
Market shares have been closer to shuffling of the deck than consolidation when viewed over a longer time. In the retail segment, we are still less consolidated than most consumer products.
We differ on if it is a matter of being smart or dumb. You think it means "nothing" and I think it means a lot. Money matters of course, but good ideas get funded.
I am Mike Schaus, a private consultant. I've not worked for any of the companies on your list of greedy enemies and sharks. My email is impact500@aol.com if you wish to know more.
Your flaming devilish symbol is supposed to mean what?
Davis and Clarity Vision are sister companies under parent company, Highmark. The lives covered under Clarity are being roled over to be administrated through Davis. Of biggest concern is whether the Optichoice and other plans will cease to be marketed or invariably changed to a standard Davis plan.
Sorry, but I can not understand why is everyone against Davis!!!
I am with them from Jan 2004. If you read the manual correctly and use all the options that you can get from Davis you can get a nice check at the end of the month.
I think if you have open slots in OD schedule Davis is the best to fill it!
What other insurance will reimburse you $50 for exam, $25 for dispensing , $10 for UV ? And you dont have to buy frame, lenses, cut them , UV them and give them a case!!
This is just an example of one of the plans that they have.
they also have better ones and a litle worse ones.
Also what i like about htem is a garanty of payment. Got authorisation = got paid.
Also it looks like that they verry agresive in their Advertising. People actualy coming in and ask for Davis.
What other insurance will reimburse you $50 for exam, $25 for dispensing , $10 for UV ? And you dont have to buy frame, lenses, cut them , UV them and give them a case!!
Lenny........ This is my point.
Unless you are the one paying the bills, they can make things seem SATISFACTORY. The problem is that SATISFACTORY is not good enough to compete with today's prevailing market demands.
I am assuming the $50 is the docs money so you really can't look at that as a direct contribution to optical profit. And the measly $35 you get from dispensing means you have to see a ton of Davis patients just to keep the lights on, the phone hooked up, the lease paid up, and the employees fairly compensated; regardless of the fact you do not have an investment in inventory. Oh....and you don't think the dispenser won't be moved by the patients puppy eyes to get one of your nicer cases?
On top of that consider the fact that those Davis Vision folks will be in for adjustments, screws, repairs, etc. so within their eyewear purchasing cycle you may have had to spend a minnimum of 5 or 10 minutes with them each time. It doesn't take long to realize the $35.00 they have paid you up front may obligate you to working for less than minnimum wages.
Indeed, you have potential to help your cash flow with Davis Vision but just remember, these folks are coming to you bacause of their lower value expectations. Value driven customers have the least loyalty since they are often chasing the best deal. As you may be consumed with servicing the high volume low margin demands of your practice, competitors continue selling premium quality while recognizing more than satisfactory results .... also known as profitability.
Last edited by PAkev; 10-21-2004 at 10:36 AM.
We are employing an Optometrist so we still have to pay for the whole day. As I stressed before If I have open slots I would rather see patients from Davis than let the Doc read the newspaper. Also the patients do come back for adjustments so we do need to spend some time with them for free. Davis will also pay you dispensing fee if the frame is broken and you have to replace it! Any other insurance waranty the frame and pay you dispensing for that servise(from another side you can instead make a sale on the broken frame:hammer:)
Also I dont agree with this statement :competitors continue selling premium quality while recognizing more than satisfactory results .... also known as profitability.
Your profit margin is much higher in the low end than in higher end (my opinion) as long as you have VOLUME!
Lenny,
We sold 34 pairs of glasses on Friday. If, instead of selling them glasses, all I had to do was shake their hand and they'd hand me $35 (or even $45), I'd be out of business by the end of the month.
I WILL let my OD read the paper before I'd take the Davis plan.
...and another thing:D ...
Do you make less profit on a Cazal, than on your lower ends ? Sure, you have to invest more for the Cazal, but you're not have to see as many people.
When I buy groceries, it doesn't matter how many people I've seen, what matters is how much I made off the people I saw.
34 jobs a day sounds greate!
I would be very happy to do 34 Davis visions a day !
I think I can live with that!
And about the other thing.....
I do make smaller profit on Cazals (even that i sell mostly closeouts ) % wise. So the only thing needeed is the quantaties!!!
Lenny,
I understand that we all have to take what we can get.
As far as the Cazals - (Especially closeouts) You don't make more on those than on a Davis, or do you just not have the opportunity to sell enough of them?
I would like to add my two cents on Davis Vision. Davis Vision is a subsidiary of Clarity Vision which is a subsidiary of Highmark, Inc.-the largest insurer in Pennsylvania. Highmark, Inc. also owns Independence Blue Cross of Philadelphia and Central Pennsylvania Blue Shield. Highmark, Inc. went mysteriously from a non-profit to a for profit company around 1998.
Davis Vision brings the wholesale lab into the doctors office as they give you their Tower of frames. You must take the Tower if you dispense any eyewear. If you don't take the Tower then you are not allowed in Keystone Health Plan East (administered and owned by Highmark, Inc.) to do exams only. All the work is done at one of Davis' labs-the closest one in Phila.
Then, for instance, Medicare (Keystone 65) patients get a free frame (try to upsell on that) and pay small copays for extras like progressives. For all of our Davis patients (and we see a huge number of these)the O.D. gets $40.00 for an exam and $15.00 for dispensing. They deduct the patient copays from these fees. So for example for a Medicare patient they will pay the doctor $55.00 plus a generous surfee of $10 for the progressive lens less an exam copay of say $25.00 (this varies) and a standard progressive copay of $50. So the monthly statement will show -$10.00. The average gross on any Davis patient across the board is between $60.00 and $65.00 per patient.
The whole plan is great for the patient and great for Davis and terrible for the provider. Why do I stay in it? It is shocking to see how many of my current patients are in Keystone Health Paln East. Many would just leave me to go to the Davis doctor on their list. Keystone insures 2 million plus lives in the Phila area. It affects local labs, frame reps, case sales ,etc. It has a trickle down effect across the ophthalmic industry.
This is what you can expect in Western Pa if they infiltrate your area. (Heinz Co. is already in Davis)
I am also in Southeastern Pennsylvania. The practice that I am now employed at was a Davis Vision provider when I came on board about 6 1/2 years ago. At that time, the Davis Labs took forever to get the work back to you, quality(if you can even use that word with Davis)was HORRIBLE, payment was slow in coming. I took a good look at the numbers= the dispensing fees, charge backs, negative amortization, Dr. fees, etc. Then we did a "time study" for what it cost the practice from the start to the finish. This included phone calls, time spent making appt., verifing ins. coverage, pre testing, exam and dilation, frame selection, measurements, explaining coverage, checkout, ordering of materials, verifing eyewear, calling patients to notify that the eyewear was ready, and dispensing. Very rude awakening!!!! It would have been cheaper to shut the practice down and take that Davis Vision patient out to lunch! We would have lost less money!! Please be very careful...this is a no-win situation. Unless of course you do not spend any time with the patient. If it is a matter of filling a Dr. time slot, maybe the practice should re-evaluate their schedule(shorter days, one less dr. day etc). One other point...no matter how much you emphasis that you do not make the glasses, the insurance co. labs do, the patient only remembers that it was YOU who sold them theses lousy glasses. It was YOU who dispensed them. It was You who adjusted them. It was YOU, YOU, YOU!!! Is that what you want? Not me, our practice, or many like us want to deal with that.
P.S. This patient tends to be the least loyal of them all. They will be gone in a flash when their insurance changes!
Fezz
:cheers:
wow fezz, i think you are exactly right... when a lab or insurance forces you to send work to their lab it can cause all kinds of problems, time delays, money lost and upset patients that are mad at you...not the insurance company ie. spectera, davis vision and vsp... it is getting harder to make money in this industry, if your in it to get rich forget it... insurances that put such tight contraints on us will eventually force the independent out of business... I really hope that doesnt happen... the only way to fight this would be for every independant optometrist, optician and opthamologist to quit every single plan all at once and thats not going to happen...
I am sory but I in my area I think Davis labs do an amaizing job. their turn around time is about 2 days. The quality is B+
The 3 piece mounts and AR comes out their Vegas lab. It takes them a while!. You can expect this kind of job in a week (that is what Davis wants you to tell customers as far as how long it takes to get their job). They would fax you a note if they have a delay or breakage.
I sent them a 3pc mount Sillhoettes with a Poly trans AR PAL.
I saw the patient on Mon and it was in my office with a Fri delivery. The look of the job was even better than it was comming from sillhouettes own lab!
To Johns
As far as the Cazals - (Especially closeouts) You don't make more on those than on a Davis, or do you just not have the opportunity to sell enough of them?
I wish I would sell as many Cazals as we do Davis.
Cazals are dead in my store for a good few years now!
Lenny:
Listen to what you're saying! B+ work !!??!! That's it ? LIke Fezz said, "All they remember is YOU, YOU, YOU!" When the B+ garbage (anything less than an A+ is garbage) falls apart, they're not going to drop their insurance, they'll drop you, you, you!
You are right!
Thats why we always stress that we do not provide eyewear for them! And by the way they waranty all their frames for 1 year with almost no questions asked!
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