Don't Get Caught With a Bargain In Your Eye

[UtahOD]

This will be the title of a pamphlet I will hand to patients that ask about going to places like Costco.

The subtitle will be "Why we will never make glasses in about an hour or match the discounters' prices".

I want to make a top 10 list, if you will.

A few of those I have thought of (in general terms only):
- Quality AR coatings such as Crizal are better and take longer
- Exact Rx guaranteed instead of a close match
- Quality PAL's
- Quality frames vs nickel-filled pieces of crap. . .
- Very nice warranty vs scratch, even accidental breaking vs none at most retail (or they charge you to use it, at least)

etc.

Any other ideas for this little signage/pamphlet? Thanks in advance.

[Joann Raytar]

• High Index is High Index. It is not Mid-Index being called High Index. High Index is thin.
  
  Transitions are available in polycarbonate.
  
  I sold it to you. I will be the one who delivers it to you and makes sure the job was done right.

[This message has been edited by Jo (edited 04-26-2001).]

[UtahOD]

Good one. I know LC uses a 1.54 mostly for their "high-index".

Another one - you get what you pay for. I know of many instances of retail outlets selling a "high index", and I break them the news that they got bent over with CR-39. They say they bought an AR, but nada. That one will make the list. :)

[Shwing]

Well, well, well, the good doctor shows his true colours.

For future reference, UtahOD, I suggest you do NOT specify your competition by name, as they may take offence.

I do. I am very happily employed by Costco. I have been in the biz since I was 19 (about 12 years now) and I too have seen and heard it all.

Before you go slandering others, take great care to check your facts. One of the most basic tenets of opticianry is 'attention to detail', and obviously you have not learned this aspect of the Optical field.

Thus, I take with great sadness, the following few moments of your life to impart with you some facts that you could otherwise find for yourself, if you so desired. I say this, because, as a business owner, you too are entitled to a Costco membership.


Now I wish to quote to you from a posting I made August 08, 1998 on the old 'Board, in response to other disparaging comments about Costco:

"Verily, I say. I have been w/ [sic] Costco Optical in Canada for a year now(we've only been open for 2, and only now are we REALLY expanding)[1998]. In all honesty, it's probably the best decision I have ever made, career- wise, along with getting my contact license.

I worked for Lenscrafters for 6 years, and then a very established owner- oriented, regional chain for 2 years. Costco is a combination of both. That is, the support, security, and positive mindset of a large corporation. However, as a value-added service, none of the 'rah rah', 'go get sales', 'push THIS product', crap. I also have the feeling of the the smaller user friendly store, as I have a wide range of product, and if I don't carry a frame, sorry, I don't carry it, no time to order in stuff so you can try 4 sizes, in 5 colors, and then go elsewhere, thanks for the help... there IS no one less expensive, and YES we do make a profit!

P.S. we only hire the best, as that is all our PAYING members will tolerate."

Now then, we only carry quality products, no gimmicks. We have either the RF999, or Crizal, your choice. We carry 1.6 from Essilor, NIkon IV HCCAS...

We have Polo, Easyclip, and other BRAND names, just at a considerably less expensive cost to our member. And yes, we still pull a profit.

Furthermore, all of our staff are LICENSED opticians and contact lens fitters. We don't dispense off of box tops, and we don't sell for the sake of selling. We provide what you want and NEED. We are not on commision, and do make a VERY good salary.

Thanks for your time.

Respectfully,

Shwing;-{

Gggrrrrr...

P.S. questions? feel free to e-mail at:

shwing@home.com

[Rich R]

Hello Doc, when you say we don't make glasses in about an hour, the truth is glasses are made in much less than an hour, especially when they go to a production lab, and you see their prices, they usually average over 10 pair for an 8 hour employee or even more to get some profit.
And for guarantee exact rx, I sometimes see an order asking for exact rx, I haven't found anyone capable of this , are you saying a -1.00 would be exact or just within tolerance?
Rich R

[mullo]

Why do insecure eyecare professionals (did I say professionals???) feel the need to slander others in the same field? Oh yeah, insecure! I feel that a customer/member/patient should be allowed to choose to purchase what they want, where they want. It is OK to point out what you carry, your prices, etc...... However to say negative things about others is simply a way to hide what you don't have or to expose one's own insecurities. The most I will ever say is make sure you are comparing apples to apples. If the consumer still cares to shop elsewhere, at least it was their choice. It has never had anything to do with my negative comments about a competitor. I'll say it again; flaunt all that you have good, not want others have bad. You will begin to sound like a politician.....Mullo

P.S. well said Shwing

[Rick-Strong]

Mullo;
I agree with you 100%
We tend to tell patients what we can do for their needs and leave others out of the conversation. I enjoy selling the LiteStyle Panamics, but not everyone can afford the price, so we also offer the bargain lenses and try our best to explain the difference.
We never tell patients we know what others are selling.(because we dont always know)
Rick Strong

[Joann Raytar]

Rick Strong is right. Let the Px know why they should stay in your office. Slamming the competition by name in front of the customer is unprofessional sounding.

Shwing & mullo:
I think professionals slam others in the field because they are frustrated about something and need to vent. Why do it here? You can't always talk optics to your next door neighbor and expect them to fully understand. Invariably venting is going to tick somebody else off. I have to note that most OptiBoards have changed their opinions and become more open minded after venting on OptiBoard. This is usually because other members offer their opinions on the other side of the story.

I guess a good rule of thumb would be:
If you have questions or opinions state them, just try to be polite.
If you are going to rebute someone's statements also do it politely.
Neither of the above means be stiff and boring. Just play nice with each other.

[hcjilson]

No one has ever made a customer by knocking the competition! No one (to the best of my knowledge) has ever made a bad pair of spectacles on purpose! It took some of us a long time to realize that we weren't going to fill every Rx in our locality.Its our responsibility to do the best job we can so that we will survive ALONG with our competition! Its in everone's best interest! Its the competition that keeps us sharp (as much as they drive us nuts while they're doing it :))

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Harry J

[mullo]

Jo, I agree with what you said. However, the slamming part is unacceptable as a professional. We all make mistakes. But if they are slanderous comments about another professional in order to gain the consumers confidence, it is dead wrong. Personal opinions are OK, except when they are truly geared at personal gain at anothers expense. Long ago, I stopped pointing out overweight people to make myself feel better about the spare tire I was developing......Mullo

[Pete Hanlin]

Back up the bus a little, folks. Its a little hypocritical to preach about slamming other professionals- right in the middle of a slam on UtahOD.

Are glasses sold at LensCrafters, Wal-Mart, etc. necessarily inferior because of their origin- of course not. Do some discounters (or private practices, for that matter) tend to sell products that are inferior or poorly suited to the patient? Sure they do!

Some folks I've worked with in the past currently work for Costco. I have to say it looks to me like its a great operation. I also know some great Opticians that work for WalMart, LensCrafters, Pearl, etc. However, I've also worked in chain opticals myself, and I've seen the kind of work that can be produced by these operations (selling UV on poly for the commission, selling discountined product without making the patient aware, and so on).

Point being, if UtahOD wants to put himself forward as someone who offers superior products and services, that's his choice. Personally, I like a phrase I heard from an advertising rep some time ago. "Every morning, look in the mirror and hold up a sign that reads 'B+.'" ("Be Positive")

I know quality eyewear can be made in well less than an hour. However, as I point out to my own patients- "I'd rather allow myself over an hour to make a product that you'll use for two years." Then again, I work in a private Optometric practice that generally delivers glasses in 24-48 hours. As UtahOD mentioned, there are some great products that simply can't be provided in "about an hour."

Sorry for the length,
Pete "live and let live, some folks say" Hanlin

[mullo]

Pete, I believe I was one of the slammers you were referring to. To say I was slamming the slammer is like slamming me, isn't it???? All joking aside. My point was; Not to slam your "competition" to the "consumer"..........Mullo

[Pete Hanlin]

Mullo,
Like I said, my general rule in life is to stay positive (though I don't always pull it off so well). I agree- in general, its best not to try to make a place in the world by degrading the efforts of others- your own work should speak for itself.

I just thought some of the posts in this string were a little strong (although I admit, I didn't realize that Costco was mentioned by name in the original post until I reread it just now- I suppose I can see where Schwing would take offense since his operation was specifically mentioned- my bad).

Pete

[mullo]

Pete. I'll give you one guess where I work......Mullo

[Shwing]

Hi folks.

Let me be clear (something we all say to ourselves when we dispense a new set of specs. HAHAHA!)

Anyway, I felt my response was necessary due to the fact that my empolyer was specifically mentioned.

Having said that, I recall a couple of posts on the old 'Board in which I had to jump to the defence of Lenscrafters after they were being maligned, even though I no longer work there.

Every optical practise has its flaws, and its strong points. That is why it is called 'competition'.

My point is, that if you are going to cut down the competition, be prepared for the consequences. One of these, is the complete loss of respect from your peers.

I have a great referal relationship with 3 or 4 optom practises in the area, including the doc next to L.C.

Why?? Because he is fair, has a low redo rate, and understands he only provides an eye exam. He is not some self styled Ralph Nader out with sword to defend the helpless consumer.

Make up a list of things to look for in an eyecare provider, fine, go for it UtahOD. Just not at the expense of others. Makes you look small.

Shwing;-}

[Vicki]

This will be the title of a pamphlet I will hand to patients that ask about going to places like Costco.
The subtitle will be "Why we will never make glasses in about an hour or match the discounters' prices".

It doesn't look like by reading Utah's original post that the pamphlet will state any one competitor's name but will be handed out when asked about discount type places in general with Costco being one of them. I don't see this as bashing the competition. The idea is a great one in my opinion. Utah was just pointing out some of the things that "can" go wrong and in fact does alot of the time. Not to say that it couldn't happen anywhere but the fact is that it does happen more at chain optical stores than in an independent setting. When the owners are present in the office daily, less problems will arise than when some bigwig from corp. does not even know what goes on.

I am very careful in my wording when I have someone come in talking about another optical. I do not bash, I just point out that we do strive in "quality" not "quantity" and the fact that the customer will always see a Licensed Optician. Just yesterday I had someone come in from a "one hour" place asking how long it would take me. We typically do not do one hour jobs unless it is ocean glasses in the summer. I agree with Pete when he said he would like to take more time than an hour when you will be wearing these glasses, every day for 1-2 yrs. To make a long story short, the customer is picking up new glasses on Monday with no problem whatsoever about the time.

I used to work for a chain, then private practice and have seen the differences in what does go on. It is easy to see why someone gets frustrated at some of the gimmicks that goes on when they are trying to run a honest business.

I'll get off my soapbox now....

Thanks for letting me vent!
Vicki

[Bob Rihl]

I duuno, Utah OD. I guess you know what you're doing. But it seems to me that you'd be better off if you let your customers go wherever they want to, and then, if they have a problem, make them a pair of perfect glasses yourself and be a hero.
As soon as you hand out a pamphlet telling folks what your glasses will or won't do, somebody in your office, or in your lab, or you, will goof, and you'll find that you did what you said you wouldn't.
"Judge not that ye be not judged." Or, don't set yourself up for a fall.
Bob

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There IS life after optical business!!!

[Texas Ranger]

UtahOD, I suppose we all have our niches. People do business where they feel "safe", trust the folks helping them, have had positive experiences with your practice or been referred by someone they trust. Their are a great many fine opticians in the industry, some work in systems that have questionable "intent" with regard to how they do business, while some are just inept, especially in fields where there are high personnel turnovers. People ask us sometimes why we don't do stuff in "an hour"? My answer is that you can do only a very small percentage of the possible orders, since you must have the proper lens blank to grind, the proper base curves, material, right blank, left blank, add power, etc. so the odds of the pt getting what works best for them is almost remote, unless you want to pay a prium price for very basic eyewear. 90% of our clients are in Crizal coated lenses, it takes a couple extra days to process the Crizal. if we had a huge lens inventroy and surfaced in-house, would we even bother to tell people of this wonderful product? Could we offer premium progressives such as Panamics? most of the fast grind shops don't offer glass, many pts still want photo-gray,etc. we carry about 25 frame lines that the 1 hr. guys don't carry. if my shop was in a mall and had to pay mall rent and staff for mall hours, could we sell our stuff for less? not hardly! that's had a major 1 hr. co. lost $15million dollars last year, isn't it. tell pts to go take their bogo deals and other coupons and find out how much and how long it takes to get the "identical lens" and frames that they selected in your shop. you must develop a "unique competency", not degrade the bio-degradeable.

[Di822]

I am in Louisiana....unlicensed state....you wouldn't believe the things I see here. There are people selling glasses who were flipping burgers last week. Sorry...it is true. I know of some offices in this area who have not one ABO person in the building. They are learning by the seat of their pants.
Most of us who post on Optiboard started out in a chain optical. We know what goes on there. We too were commission driven, overworked, yelled at Eyewear specialist.(My company wouldn't call us opticians)
The purpose of this board should be to help each other ...encourage and lift up our profession. At first my Dr. didn't like it because I am teaching his "competition" at the local community college. He got over it. I told him I am doing it to improve the quality of workers in our profession.....and some day I hope to hire them to come to work for me.
Now I don't want anyone to fuss at me about anything I have said. I will cry if you do. I will say up front that if I offended you, I am sorry already. We are all different and we are all the same. Now lets take on the day!

[Joann Raytar]

Okay folks, now we are starting to intimidate people; play nice.

mullo:
You are probably one of the few OptiBoard members who han't targeted others. I guess that makes you one of the more gracious hosts among us.

Slamming can become very overbearing. You are right on that one. I guess I mean it is natural to question or even challenge the other guy. Just keep in mind that criticism has made a few OptiBoard members actually think a little bit, after the defensiveness has gone down.

[mullo]

Jo, I'm not being defensive, you're being defensive.......(just kidding) You are always so diplomatic, I guess that's what I like about you. Let's all be friends. UtahOD, if it means anything to you, I'd work with you anytime. And I do respect your opinions, I just don't "always" agree with them. Or with others for that matter. Stay with us and I'll watch your back. (I'm a big boy) Kisses to all eh, from Canada.....Mullo

[This message has been edited by mullo (edited 04-27-2001).]

[Di822]

I feel some "Optical bonding" going on here...

Homer sure has been quiet....where are u Homer?

Maybe we should get together tomorrow on the chat line and have a group hug. How about it?

[peyes]

I think UtahOD spoke (rather punched a keyboard) without having all the facts at his disposal. Perhaps the same as I'm doing now!
I own an independent optical that "employs" an OD and "contracts" with and MD twice a month. We think we are very busy most of the time. Some facts about our business:

1. We offer one hour service on most eyewear. (Approx 30 pair per day) Doesn't seem to degrade the quality at all. I learned earlier in life that with the proper tools you can do most anything. I have two LDO's even though not required. They both are knowledgeable. In the lab I have 3 very qualified opticians although with todays technology how qualified must one be to push buttons. No, really! I know many of you will disagree with this point but I could put a youngster in the lab w/ minimal training and they could produce a pair of lenses as good as anyone else. Am I right?

2. We sell a lot of frames containing nickel but we sell more titanium. You get what you pay for or you get what you can afford. Many just do not have the luxury of better quality. Nothing wrong with that...it has always been that way with any product made. Hey, there's some pretty good nickel frames out there.

3. I don't especially like Walmart, Costco, LC, the MD group or the independent OD across town or in Utah. Let's face it, if they sell one pair of glasses that's a pair I won't get any money for. I don't like that simply because after the bills are paid I want something for myself. Ah...the American way, isn't it great?

So, UtahOD we need what you bring to the party, don't take your marbles and run off. Let's play a few more rounds and see what happens.

Phil "feeling better" Gillette
Like Stephen King writes "SSDD"

[so]

I work in a small lab that services 4 retail stores. While we will do 1 hour service for patient emergencies, 1 hour service isn't our norm. We have only three people to do all order entry, receiving,fabrication,telephone answering, stocking and checkout. We average about 56-60 jobs a day in our busy season. This would be impossible if all orders were to be completed in 1 hour. Also, we cannot possibly stock enough variety of lenses to best suit all of our customers' needs. I don't see how people at Lenscrafters do it - I would be a nervous wreck!

[Pete Hanlin]

Its actually not all that hard to make a pair of eyewear in an hour (even if you have to make a lens twice, in some cases) if you have the proper staffing and equipment.

The only disadvantage to one hour service that I saw when I was in that environment came when you had a lab manager whose top priority was one-hour service. If the final check found the axis was a bit off and the patient was due back in five minutes, the job was going out. Also, you tend to only "push" products you have in stock and ready to go.

For the most part, however, one hour service is attainable without any reduction in quality if you have quality people and equipment in the lab.

Pete