"Witness: Kerry told truth"

[hcjilson]

I had originally intended to post this in the other "Kerry/Vietnam" thread, but I noticed it was 6 pages long and was afraid this would be missed by his detractors. I would like to quote 2 headlines from The Cape Cod Times. The first appeared in this AM's edition, and the second appeared yesterday (8/21).

"Witness: Kerry told truth"
"Military Files uphold Kerry's war account"

I am sure they have appeared in most of the country's papers as well.The first headline tells of William Rood (currently an editor of the Chicago Tribune) who commanded one of the three swift boats in Kerry's squadron on that mission in Feburary 1969. It's interesting reading if you care to hear the story from someone who was there.

The second headline was a search through military records (not just the fluff in the medal citations, I am talking about things like battle damage reports on the swift boats themselves) which support Kerry's account of what actually happened.


Like it or not, this whole thing was a political dirty trick, and of the worst kind. It was of the worst kind because it attempted to denigrate a man's integrity, and in so doing, denigrated the service of a lot of people who have made it possible for us to live the way we do today.



Shame on the President of the United States!

for allowing this to happen. I note this morning that someone was fired over this, but there is still no repudiation from the White House.George W Bush continues to lie to the American public. He lies when he says he has no idea where this came from. He lies when he says his campaign had nothing to do with it. This situation has been brewing since long before the primarys. I think I saw my first "Swift Boat" emails in late January or sometime in Febuary.Bush did not then, nor does he now, want to face Kerry in an election.

I have a deep feeling that the American public, who have been lied to repeatedly by the President, will express their anger at the ballot box.

Does this man think we are that stupid?.......We must be, we put him there............or did we???..................... Frightening , isn't it?

[chip anderson]

HCJ:

You think we haven't been lied to repeatedly by Kerrry?

Can you think of any politician at any level who given enough time, hasn't lied to the public?

If all salesmen are liers, politicians are super-salesmen.

Chip

[chm2023]

Started reading Moore's "Dude Where's My Country" last night. Interesting point he makes (one I had never thought about): how much skill does it take to target and fly an airplane, going in excess of 500MPH into a 5 story building (Pentagon)? Answer of course is, a lot. He wonders if the terrorists might have had some greater level of training than the couple of months of flight school simulation exercises--like for instance the Saudi air force. Interesting that although the terrorists but one were all Saudi, the administration fed us we were "attacked by terrorists"; begging the question, if 18 of the 19 had been from North Korea, would the headlines not have been "US attacked by North Korea"? Of course, the Bushes don't have close ties to the North Koreans.

This whole swift boat thing will come back to bite Bush in the a**. You can see the look of revulsion that comes over people when this is brought up. There is no depths too low for these clowns. (See Max Clellan--sp?--race in Georgia, McCain smeared in SC primary). Look up what is happening in Florida, the FBI going to people's homes to make inquiries about voter fraud. Funny thing, the "people" in question are all black. But on the other hand, you never see any of this Bush gang without their flag lapels, so they clearly have to be real patriots, right?

Let's see, the Romanoffs had their peasants and Lenin, the French had their sans culottes, the Romans lead poisoning and decadence--can a great nation be brought to its knees by the gullibility of its own citizens?

Gotta run, always like to catch Condi Rice's act on the news programs.

[chip anderson]

Odd you same people don't mind bringing up GW's DWI from back in the 60's.

There is no difference in politicians as to what they will stoop to.

[Joann Raytar]

There is no difference in politicians as to what they will stoop to.

I agree with you Chip - it doesn't matter - they all have skeletons.

[mrba]

Started reading Moore's "Dude Where's My Country" last night. Interesting point he makes (one I had never thought about): how much skill does it take to target and fly an airplane, going in excess of 500MPH into a 5 story building (Pentagon)? Answer of course is, a lot. He wonders if the terrorists might have had some greater level of training than the couple of months of flight school simulation exercises--like for instance the Saudi air force.

Many experts have actually shown that piloting planes in the fashion of 911 is humanly impossible, except for by computer assisted remote control.

You all think about that and I will too.

[chm2023]

Odd you same people don't mind bringing up GW's DWI from back in the 60's.

There is no difference in politicians as to what they will stoop to.

First, I don't bring that up, and second, a DWI is a crime--you really don't have to put a bad spin on it, it is by definition bad, getting medals is not.

[mrba]

As I understand it, Kerry got a silver star for pulling a guy out of the water.

It also occurs to me that had he not done that (his duty), he would have faced court martial.

Since when do skippers get medals for doing their duty?

Just a thought.

Finally, I occurs to me that given such a short tour of duty, Kerry must be the most decorated soldier during a tour of duty in history. That is quite remarkable, given that none of his injuries required serious medical attention.

Just a thought.

[hcjilson]

not to be confused with the truth. Rather than repeat the political rhetoric being bandied about, why not research it yourself.Read the citations, read the battle damage report. Listen to those who served on HIS boat. Perhaps the shrapnel that Kerry still carries about, was self inflicted. Who cares about what happened 35 years ago. Is anyone denying he was THERE? At least ONE of the candidates was.Why should he take it on the chin for being there?

I have a lot of trouble believing anything George W Bush has to say. When are folks coming to the conclusion that the man has wasted 85 BILLION dollars on an unecessary war. More importantly he has WASTED almost a thousand lives on a conflict that only benefited the oil interests and defense industries. I actually did'nt know how to classify Haliburton but lets lump them in too!

A lot of you might feel differently about this if you had someone serving in Iraq.

EOS hj

[mrba]

I think that if the circumstances surrounding the awards don't merit them, then it smells fishy. Especially for someone from Yale in the skulls. At least Bush's connections are blatant, and he doesn't wear them on his sleeve.


I can understand one purple heart for shrapnel, but three? And a silver star awarded for pulling a guy out of the water?

An insult to those who actually sacrificed something if you ask me... but you didn't ask.

[chip anderson]

chm2023 Getting medals by fraud and deciept is a crime also. Consorting with the enemy as Kerry did in Paris with North Vietnam officials after the war is definitely a crime. War crimes and atrocities which Kerry admits is very, very much a crime.

[Steve Machol]

Not that I expect the truth would sway anyone who has already made up their mind, but here's the account of the person Kerry rescued:

Rassmann: Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.


When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.

From:
http://factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231

[Roy R. Ferguson]

Hi All:

As a Vietnam veteran, I have no problem with George Bush joining the National Guard or John Kerry enlisting in the Navy during the war. Both men served the nation honorably and the military service of neither should be questioned.

I also have to say that I have no issues with John Kerry’s metals. If the United States Navy wants to give out a Silver Star for beaching a boat and shooting some wounded guy, that’s fine. If that branch wants to issue a Bronze Star for turning around a boat and plucking a guy out of the water, great! If the Navy wants to hand out Purple Hearts for three “ouch” wounds, that’s fine. He got them, they are on the record, and that is the end of it.

While discussing these awards with one of my former observers, we decided that what we feel is envy! If only our unit had used Navy standards we would have returned with more medals than we could carry. The problem was that most combat actions were considered to just be part of our job.

That’s not to say an occasional undeserved commendation didn’t slip by. The A-Troop First Sergeant received a Purple Heart one night after bumping his head running for the bunker. Another time, I was conducting a training mission in a secure area for our ground troops when one cut his foot. I was in the process of hovering over to give the poor soul a ride when the Squadron Commander came on the radio and said he would do the “Medivac.” When, at a later awards ceremony he received the Distinguished Flying Cross for the action, one of the drunken Scout pilots threw his beer at him and proceeded to berate both him and his ancestors. They too got their awards, they are on the record, and that is the end of it.

Unfortunately, John Kerry’s actions upon returning to the United States 30 years ago are also part of the record. He should have placed his charge that Vietcong atrocities paled next to the criminality of U.S. troops on stage along side his “Band of Brothers.” He should have once again repeated this claim and demanded that these war criminals face the bar of justice. He missed his chance and a most memorable photo opportunity! He could have been center stage hugging Jane Fonda and the “Band” while stressing all his record!

[chm2023]

chm2023 Getting medals by fraud and deciept is a crime also. Consorting with the enemy as Kerry did in Paris with North Vietnam officials after the war is definitely a crime. War crimes and atrocities which Kerry admits is very, very much a crime.

1. There is no proof there was fraud and deception, just conveniently timed allegations.
2. I think by definition "after the war" would make the NV officials no longer the enemy and therefore not a crime, or else Kissinger needs to be arrested as well.
3. Actually the government decided the atrocities, which I believe you think didn't happen? were not crimes.

[chm2023]

How would you like to be an army (or navy etc) recruiter these days? First, your audience can see how stand up the military big wigs are when it comes to taking responsibility for actions--Abu G situation, apparently no culpability above the lowly enlisted level. (Love how Rumfeld said "this happened on my watch, I accept responsibility." Great, so what does that mean? Is the statement alone considered exculpatory? I don't get it.) Second, this swift boat thing, where a man has his military career and integrity questioned decades after the fact.

Tough sell I would guess.:hammer:

[mrba]

1. There is no proof there was fraud and deception, just conveniently timed allegations.

When a four star officer gives a lutienant junior grade a medal for a minor thing, there is no proof, but there sure is more than a conveniantly timed allegation.