I am going to throw this out for fun. I had a patient ask me the other day " Why do glasses cost that much?". I gave him my best answer, and pondered that question. He purchased a Silhouette Titan Minimal art frame with cr-39 Zeiss top progressives and a second pair of Flexons in sv for computer use. What would your response have been? WHY DO GLASSES COST SO MUCH? Let us hear your response.
He did not say this meanly or to give me a hardtime, just sort of off the cuff.
1) Because people are dumb enough to swallow the "designer concept." If it has a famous name on it, it must be worth a lot more money.
2) Companies who could have one rep for all thier lines have many. They and the designers must be paid.
3) The public is getting more and more oriented to "instant gratification" this cost much more for inventories and machinery and labour.
4) Have you ever seen a film 1940's hospital? It functioned quite well but it was not all chrome, marble and private rooms. Now today's hospital (and today's optical shop) must be "design showcase's", this cost more.
5) Taxes used to be about 13 to 25% then came the Democrats and now they are 55%.
6) Perhaps most importantly, the doctor did not get involved ecconicly with the filling of his precriptions. Now they got a piece, and want to be paid.
Need I go on?
Chip
Delusional.Originally posted by chip anderson:
5) Taxes used to be about 13 to 25% then came the Democrats and now they are 55%.
Bob, Actually, if you want to provide quality eyewear such as the patient selections you mentioned, it does require you to make a capital asset investment in frame inventory, then you ceate a serious lab bill when you order the lenses from the lab. there is a great deal of overhead in running an optical shop, rent, phone, advertising,taxes,utilities, phone, internet access, shipping costs, and the biggest is payroll and personnel related expenses. I tell people that I do this for a living, and I basically get what's left over after I pay for everything else, sometimes that's really good, especially if I don't fill a bunch of rx's from MD's that want to experiment with 0.25 changes on $150 pair cost lenses. So, we pay $90 to a frame co. for a frame, and what gross profit do you need to make on it's sale, and that of the lenses to cover the cost of your livlihood and your overhead? the answer is a whole lot more than the frame co. profits on that frame, so why not appreciate their efforts more to provide a product that sells through and that you make your living providing to your client. A good client understands that good products combined with professional services, costs a lot for you to provide and that a good deal of the glasses costs covers your operating costs and that you do this for a living!
From strictly a consumer point of view, this is what I see:
* An person standing by as the customer tries on one set of frames after another. If it is a real quick selection, perhaps this takes 20 minutes---then the frames have to be put back.
*An person going over the options of different kinds of lenses and coatings and taking the order---10 minutes.
*An person fitting the glasses onto the customer---10 minutes.
* Perhaps the lens has to be re-done because the bi-focal line is a tad high.
* Downtime while the person waits between customers.
* A collection of frames that have to be stocked and re-newed as they go out of style---blame the frame manufacturers and the customers if you must.
* A royalty on each frame paid to a famous name because the customer thinks some of the panache of the designer will accrue to the buyer of the frame.
My wife is British. National health frames of years back looked gawd-awful. While I am hardly a style freak the complete lack thereof is painful even to me.
Individualized attention costs money. Design and production of short-run products have high-unit costs.
I would suppose that a tightly-run operation like Lenscrafters has a basic cost of $40 in sales alone per each specticle.
Yeah, glasses are expensive. But we must use a different standard of value than that of mass-produced, identical items.
My come back on this question is usually with another question.
Why does my wife have to spend $100.00 at the grocery store each week in order to feed our family?
Why does a car that cost my father $1,900.00 in 1957 now cost me $29,000?
Why is the bank collecting twice the amount of what they lent me for my mortgage?
Progress indeed comes with a price tag. Many are willing to recognize the benefits which progress brings by paying more for a product or service. I often have older folks remind me that their first pair of eyeglasses only cost them $7.00 while I also remind them their social security checks continue to be increased each year.
My take on the whole thing is that the public has innocently changed its perception of the industry as being a fashion product more than a functional optical product. At that point, it didn't take long for everyone and anyone in the public spotlight to be picked up by major frame manufacturers to endorse their product lines. The lens companies certainly realized the situation and therefore brought new technology to the marketplace which restored a little more balance to the eyewear industry.
The bottom line is that our prices are influenced by a simple law of economics referred to as "Supply & Demand." The consumer is the ultimate judge of accepting or rejecting our prices.
Kevin
What ever it's worth to you
T
I think that last statement was spot on. Glasses are a custom made device. I think there's more to the high cost of eyewear than the customized application, however.
In a twisted way, you can blame the cost of eyewear on third party insurances and/or the Optometry schools. With an oversupply of refractionists out there, third party plans have no trouble filling panels with providers that accept a fraction of their U&C for the medical services they provide. As a result, an OD cannot "just practice Optometry."
Even in an independant Optician's office, the overhead involved with dispensing eyewear is formidible. Maintaining an inventory, staff, and location are all expensive line items that must be paid for... It's not the glasses that are expensive- its maintaining the comfortable chairs, the competent staff, and the product lines.
Finally, you could ask the question "Expensive compared to what???" Okay, so you spend $360 on a pair of glasses. Typically, you'll wear those glasses between 400-800 days, 16 hours a day, during every activity in which you participate. What other piece of equipment or clothing is expected to be so versatile and durable???
Come to think about it, how DARE a consumer ask us how a product that brings them so much pleasure should cost so much! They should fall on their knees and thank us for the services we provide at such meager cost!
Whew, I need to step away from the neutralizer, the fumes must be having an effect on me...
Pete
[This message has been edited by Pete Hanlin (edited 04-24-2001).]
True glasses are custom made to a degree, in that it is highly unlikly that two perscriptions will be the same in all respects. But there is a large range of standard s\v out there that are off the shelf, this includes a/r coated high index as well. While i agree that the shop end has to make a profit (no point doing it otherwise) i would question the need for such high markups, Like how a £2.00 a pair stock s/v from the lab become to the punter at least £40.Originally posted by Pete Hanlin:
Glasses are a custom made device. I think there's more to the high cost of eyewear than the customized application, however.
Pete
I know this has all been done to death before but..........
------------------
Every day a grind
Every week a bind
www.iooi.co.uk
I like to tell people this
"Glasses cost so much because everyone in the optical buisness is a capitlistic pig, ready, willing and able to take advantage of the unsuspecting public."
In truth I love that question. I simply explain the facts in a way that people can relate to. For instance, in my area there are alot of people who are employed in some way by the auto industry. If I am talking to one of those people I simply say.
The same reason my new Silverado pickup cost so much. There are alot of people standing in line with thier hand out before the product gets to me. First I start out with a quality frame. Made in Italy, France, Austria or Japan. Not something made in a sweatshop of China. Since these people dont' work all day for a bowl of rice, it has a base cost.The lenses I use are of the highest quality opticly ground resins. I could use cheaper products, but would you be happy with an inferior product?
Then the shipping people have to make money for thier service, same goes with the lab people. None of them work for free. On that note the phone company demands that I pay them, same with the Electric company. For you to pick out a frame I have to have between $35-40,000 dollars in inventory. Then there is rent, insurance, payroll, taxes, and finally there needs to be some left over so I can keep making my truck payment, which in turn helps you keep your job. It is all part of the big circle.
That question only irks me when another buisness owner asks it.
One of my clients who owns a bar was telling me "Eyeglasses have a huge markup". I said as opposed to Alcohol. You dont seem to have a problem selling me a beer at $3.50 that costs you less than $.50.
Or how about my insurance agent. I explained that at least the govt. does not make you purchase glasses before purchasing a car
At any rate. Our clients need to be educated in things other than lens options....Good thing we know it all. :-)
More from the soapbox later.
Regards,
Shane
When I went from working in the lab to the retail floor, I was incredulous at the markup. I looked at the price sheet, saw the SV prices and told the manager "hey, do you realize we only pay $xx for this lens that we're selling for $xxx!?!""I would question the need for such high markups, Like how a £2.00 a pair stock s/v from the lab become to the punter at least £40."
The reason for the high markup on SV is related to units sold. In other words, if your overhead is $100,000 and you sell 1,000 units, you need to make at least $100 from each unit to "break even." If you only marked up the SV lens 2 or 3x, you wouldn't make enough per unit to stay open. The SV job is marked up so dramatically because it represents a certain percentage of the year's sales (and has to carry its own weight).
Pete
PS- I know this site is sponsored by Transitions, but their product is an example of a lens that is somewhat questionable from a retail standpoint. By the time I mark a Transitions lens up high enough to make the same profit as I do on a clear SV lens, I'm selling a very expensive lens. Heaven forbid anything gets SNAFU'ed on the job...
First I am really going to try not to turn this into a tirade.I have been an Optician/Manager for 15 years in NYC.My experience has only been with high-end optical stores so i can only speak from that perspective.But from what I hear across the board its an industry wide problem.
Anyone who has been an optician for at least 5 years will know what I am talking about.
This price resistance comment is just another symptom of a greater and deeper problem:The deterioration of status of opticians! Here in NYC, for an optician with 5 yrs exp. starting salaries were $50,000+ commission and benefits 10 years ago!(remember Im only talking high-end)Now,they act as if their doing you a favor by offering 35K and expect you to pay some ins. costs.The hours have gotten longer.They hire cheap help to keep down costs that don't know anything so you end up doing their work as well.Prices arent higher its the public's perception.We charge almost the same for glasses that we did then.Now they ask for discounts as well.But we all must take some of the blame for the current state of affairs. Why can't we find good help? Now they can make more money doing something else. Half my friends have switched careers.The people coming in now are not as well educated, harder to train, and less skilled (at least what I'm interviewing).In fact Im not sure if I wont be doing something else a year from now.OK I got that out of my system.
Here's MY favorite response:
How many suits do you own?(A suit costs more than a pair of glasses)
You don't wear the same one everyday do you?
It cost more than the pair of glasses you get use out of everyday.
You don't get a bill from the optician every time you clean your glasses or need them "tailored" to fit you.
They usually buy another pair at this point.Works every time for me.
Thanks for letting me rant everyone!
It would be interesting to ask these patients what they feel an Optician should make in a yearly income. Perhaps selling the materials at cost and charging professional fee`s would seem like less. ?
It's the choices that cause the price to go up; the more choices the more cost at every level.
Henry Ford is quotes as saying, "I don't care what color of car you want as long as it is black." He was the first one to make cars that the common person could afford.
The fact that we are given choices, ask for choices and pass on those choices to our customers increases the price. If we were all making prosthetic devices that simply needed to be manipulated a little for each wearer, the price would be quite different.
A person treating 5 people per day, 5 days a week could make above average wages for opticians if the customer was charged only $30 per fitting fee and the cost of materials and overhead was included in the price of the item. But remember there would be no choices ...... and we'd all be bored!!
So we live in a society where Choice is King and he imposes a very heavy tax.
Eyespy, I like your suit analogy, I will definately use it often.....Mullo
Do glasses cost too much and we are taking advantage of the consumer? Who is making all that profit? I know in Ohio it is not the optician. We have a hard time justifying paying $30,000 a year to a licensed optician. There are a lot of successful industries in Western countries and their owners and employees are making a much better living than optical professionals. I equate salary with profitability and I do not see a lot of net profit in our industry at the retail level. Glasses cost so much because this is a custom made personalized product. Eyewear is face jewelry with a health component that is designed specifically for one individual. We also give a lifetime of service with no additional cost to the consumer. They probably need to cost more but that is another story.
"Your prescription has not changed so you don't need new glasses"
Have you heard this lately?
Bill
Bill, it's more like.."your prescription hasn't changed "enough to justify" the expense of new glasses." At the same time, most of the md's in our area have nearly doubled their exam fees from the patients last exam. People like Dilbert(a consumers view) just sees that the opticians helping he and his wife"spends a few minutes letting them try on frames","minutes discussing lens options", "stands around waiting for the next client to help", so he just doesn't "see" us doing much. hard to see "thought". All he "sees" the eye doctor doing is turning dials and looking thru measuring instruments, so maybe some people need to see us get down and give 'em 50 push ups and work up a sweat! The same people that compalin about the cost of glasses, will pay $300 for a putter, $40/month for cable tv, $400 for a nice suit to wear maybe once a month, $30K for a new car, $175 for a pair of shoes(and have 15 pair), they will buy a DVD palyer, and a Sony playstation for $350 and pay $40 per game,they'll spend $200 to take the family to a ball game. Glasses that last 2 years plus, that they couldn't do any of the rest without, that they use all day every day, somehow are worth less. having done this for 30 plus years, I have found that my best thing to do is offer people the very best products and srevices available, price them fairly, be flexible on multiple pairs, collect fees up front, pay my suppliers timely, take care of staff, always appreciate people doing business with you, and be intentionallly honest with people, even when things haven't gone well. But you must always make enough money to stay in business and strive to get out of and stay out of debt. you and your clientele should always know that you are in the same place to conduct a business transaction, that can and is professional in nature, that is beneficial to you both.
"Why do glasses cost that much?"
"Because significant technological advances in lens processing over the last few years have enabled us to keep prices down."
Silhouette Titan in cr-39? Do you use cr-39 for drill mounts?
Shanbaum, GREAT reply!
We too often take for granted the greatness of the technology that we dispense from day to day.
Actually, we put CR-39 in Titans in our office as well. I've found Silhouette's system works just fine with CR-39. More often, however, we sell AR coated polycarb or high index if we're selling a Titan (makes for a pretty nice sales ticket ;) )."Silhouette Titan in cr-39? Do you use cr-39 for drill mounts?
As for why the person who spends $480/year on cable can't understand the necessity of spending half that amount on quality eyewear- I think it comes down to perception. Cable, shoes, etc. are perceived as things that provide us enjoyment- glasses tend to be viewed as a necessity that helps us overcome a weakness (poor eyesite). I guess the perception is that glasses are solely utilitarian (a necessary evil, like gasoline, if you will) and should therefore be cost as little as possible.
Pete
This is exactly why I have always equated myself to the likeness of an insurance salesman. Insurance, like glasses, is one of those necessary evils that people hate to spend money on, but cannot live without. I do wish we could change the thinking on eyewear. God knows this industry has tried, but most of the public won't buy into it. They still hate glasses.
P.S. The beauty of the Titan is the light weight factor. Why add more weight with CR-39?
Thanks again, Homer. I will give answers to all your questions this weekend.
Well, looks like I got a bit of a conversation started. I have enjoyed reading all the replies. Keep 'em coming!
I am reminded of a letter to Ann Landers a number of years ago. The writer wanted to complain about the "outrageous" cost of braces for their child. After all, it's only a few ounces of metal.
The columnist forwarded the letter to the American Dental Association who replied that they would be happy to furnish the writer the "few ounces of metal" at cost and they can make their own braces.
I'm sorry if our eyewear costs too much. Let me give you the name of some cheap eyeglass people.
You may have to pay close attention to a few things. That's the trade off. And, I can't really give you a check list, because you can't do much about it anyway.
You'll need to take your chances, but, that's why a lot of people trust us so much.
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