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Thread: Which progressive is best?...

  1. #1

    Which progressive is best?...

    ... for general use?

    I have noticed people are very opinionated about their lens choice. I have also noticed when I ask them how their lens compares to anything else, they have tried precious few other choices...

    Does anyone try lots of progressives and have a favorie? If you have been using Comfort for the last hundred years thats fine, but I value the opinions of those that have tried "other".

    Why is it we are such creatures of habit?

    Any comments are welcome

  2. #2
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    One of the worst people here
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    Super No-Line still works great.

    But for a nicer lens I would have to pick Ovation. The Ovation is the lens that I basically use for everyone. It has a great price and great optics. It also has a 17 fitting height. We were using the Panamic a lot about a year ago, but I find when I fit up people with the Ovation they are just as happy or happier. It is pretty standard that when someone comes in here looking for progressives we use the Ovation with D Alize. I pretty much just use Super No-line for rx sunglasses or if someone wants to stay really cheap.

    I have tried a lot of lens, but you ask why we are creatures of habit. I guess it would go down to the fact that it is hard to determine an individual lens design for each person. Am I going to weight the options and decide if I am either going to give them a lens with 2 inches wider in the reading or in the distance. I try different types of lenses, get feedback, look at the price, and look at other variables and it is a lot easier for me to suggest one lens design to 60 percent of my clientele and mix up with other lenses based on other factors for the other 40 percent that offer 10 different lens designs to the same customer.
    Last edited by For-Life; 07-22-2004 at 02:02 PM.

  4. #4
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Variety is the spice of life

    Quote Originally Posted by mrba
    ... for general use?

    I have noticed people are very opinionated about their lens choice. I have also noticed when I ask them how their lens compares to anything else, they have tried precious few other choices...

    Does anyone try lots of progressives and have a favorie? If you have been using Comfort for the last hundred years thats fine, but I value the opinions of those that have tried "other".

    Why is it we are such creatures of habit?

    Any comments are welcome
    Before I wore PALs (3 years), I sold a lot of:
    Essilor Natural: good optics, wide variety of materials, similar to Comfort in visual performance.
    Sola XL: low price, wide intermediate, good for first timers.
    VisionEase Outlook: first short corridor in poly, poly polar, poly trans, and I sell LOTS of poly because I have a duty to warn that I take seriously (translates: Please don't sue me).

    I have worn:
    Essilor Adaptar - lots of distortion, limited clear reading
    Hoya Wide - distortion creeps up into distance perifery
    Essilor Natural - similar to Comfort, although when I upgraded to the lenses below, the Natural felt like tunnel vision.
    Hoya ECP, Zeiss Gradal Top, Varilux Comfort, Panamic, Ovation - all are very nice, low distortion, would sell them anytime. They would hate to hear this, but with my +1.25 add, they seem almost interchangeable - I switch among them with no problem.
    Seiko Proceed - did not like, lots of distortion!
    Varilux Elipse - ok, but more distortion than Panamic & Comfort.

    If a patient uses the computer alot, and wants only one pair of eyewear, I recommend XL - lots of intermediate.
    Otherwise, for general use, I recommend Panamic - wide seletion of materials, name brand recognition, more profit, fits small frames.
    If they want thinnest, lightest, I sell Hoya Summit ECP 1.70, although Essilor 1.67 is pretty thin, too.

    For what it's worth, that's my experience and strategy.

  5. #5
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Nice post, Spexvet.
    I use a lot lot lot of Panamic.
    What is the Ovation supposed to offer over Panamic? (I'm losing track...)

  6. #6
    One of the worst people here
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    Quote Originally Posted by drk
    Nice post, Spexvet.
    I use a lot lot lot of Panamic.
    What is the Ovation supposed to offer over Panamic? (I'm losing track...)
    Well the Ovation is an Essilor lens and the Panamic is an Essilor lens. Ovation is less expensive and I would really like to question what more the Panamic has to offer over the Ovation. Also the Ovation is available in transitions in CR-39 and Poly, and is also available clear in 1.67. Plus it is available in polarized Cr-39 and poly. So it has a lot of versitality.

  7. #7
    What's up? drk's Avatar
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    Ok, now's the time for Pete to show up.

  8. #8
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by For-Life
    Well the Ovation is an Essilor lens and the Panamic is an Essilor lens. Ovation is less expensive and I would really like to question what more the Panamic has to offer over the Ovation. Also the Ovation is available in transitions in CR-39 and Poly, and is also available clear in 1.67. Plus it is available in polarized Cr-39 and poly. So it has a lot of versitality.
    Ovation's minimum fitting ht is 17mm vs Panamic's 18mm. I wear both - Ovation has more distortion nasally vs Panamic, and I feel there is more distortion above the 180 line in Ovation. Ovation came out with new lwns materials before Panamic (1.67, poly trans).

    Pete will tell you that Panamic has 17 patented features, of which Ovation uses only 9 (or something like that)

  9. #9
    I always thought Ovation and Panamic were the same desighn with different laser marks... What do I know?

  10. #10
    Master OptiBoarder Texas Ranger's Avatar
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    I have fit Varilux lenses since 1978, and worn them personally since 1984; Comfort came out in 2/94 replacing the V2, and the Panamic came out in 3/2000. So, most, about 90% of our clients wear either Comforts or Panamics. I do feel it is important that once you're out of "starter" adds, the client should be in the same PAL design in all their glasses, matching BCs, prism thinning, monocular pds/seg hts, etc. We do fit some Rodenstock Multigresive 2 and Definity and Zeiss Gradal lenses, but not many. When we see pts wearing SNL or Adaptars, they usually had a bad experience with them, but they were mostly misfit, wrong pds, segs way too high, etc...But I wear Panamics, and have really great satisfaction personally and with our clientele.

  11. #11
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    After wearing and fitting a number of progressives, these are what I go to most:

    The average Rx with add powers lower than 2.00 - Younger Image, Varilux Panamic, Sola Adaptar or sometimes Kodak
    Computer users and folks who read a great deal - SolaMax
    Higher adds - Varilux Comfort, Essilor Natural
    Polarized - KbCo Fusion, Outlook or Younger Image
    "Short Corridor" - Pentax AF Mini (I have only fit a couple of AO Compacts on patients who were already wearing the lens. Folks switched into Compact from other brands didn't seem to like them as much as their old lenses. Have only just ordered one Ellipse but I don't have any feedback yet.)

    Worst lens I ever wore or fit Visuality.

  12. #12
    Master OptiBoarder Lee Prewitt's Avatar
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    Dr James Sheedy, did a study of 28 progressives on the market, trying to determine which is best overall. This was a very scientific study. The abstract on MEDLINE is here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...tool=iconabstrI have been unable to find a link to the actual report. It was published in Optometry Feb 2004 Vol 75/issue 2. I received my copy at a Younger seminar (their lens ranked in top 5) Shamir Genesis ranked 1 and 2 in nearly every catagory. I will continue to look for a link or if someone knows where a copy is stored post. This is a wonderful study that tries to answer we are all asking...which progressive is best.
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  13. #13
    Jo,

    Curious as to your reasoning here? You may want to try Gradal Top in this situation... Just a suggestion.

    Higher adds - Varilux Comfort, Essilor Natural

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Prewitt
    Dr James Sheedy, did a study of 28 progressives on the market, trying to determine which is best overall. This was a very scientific study. The abstract on MEDLINE is here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...tool=iconabstrI have been unable to find a link to the actual report. It was published in Optometry Feb 2004 Vol 75/issue 2. I received my copy at a Younger seminar (their lens ranked in top 5) Shamir Genesis ranked 1 and 2 in nearly every catagory. I will continue to look for a link or if someone knows where a copy is stored post. This is a wonderful study that tries to answer we are all asking...which progressive is best.
    That study had been discussed by Darryl Meister and Kieth Benjamin in another thread for more info. You are right it was a good study.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Machol
    That didn't ask the same question. I am interested in people who have actually tried many lenses and not just their old one size fits all mentality.

  16. #16
    Master OptiBoarder Joann Raytar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrba
    Jo,

    Curious as to your reasoning here? You may want to try Gradal Top in this situation... Just a suggestion.

    Higher adds - Varilux Comfort, Essilor Natural
    My reasoning, and I could be wrong, longer intermediate zones.

    I hear your suggestion about the Gradal; many folks have recommended it in the past. This is a situation in which I get weird. I tend to try to stick with one main lab, they are local, privately owned and give us 110% customer service; however, they don't stock Zeiss. I do use other labs when I have to but it isn't the first idea to jump to mind. Perhaps I am being too loyal?

  17. #17
    Pomposity! Spexvet's Avatar
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    contour diagrams

    does anyone know where I can get contour diagrams for a variety of lenses?

    I requested the from Colts Lab, but was refused.

  18. #18
    since 1964 Homer's Avatar
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    Great posts

    I agree with "For-Life" that the New Super No Line is still a good lens. I tend to use it as my "low-end" lense and prefer it for myopes.

    I have worn many lenses and sorta get used to them all. I did find that the Comfort and the Adaptar tended to invade the distance areas with "soft focus".:)

    Presently I am using a lot of Shamir and Zeiss produdts with SolaMax comming 3rd. Lots of great products out there, the success of which is more related to the skill of the ECP than the actual lens technology.

    Most of us have attended seminars on various products over the years and each company is able to present stats that prove that their lense has the highest success rate. To quote from Fidler on the Roof "He's right and he's right? They can't both be right!" and Tevia's wise answer was "Yes and he's right too!"

    I believe the success rate is related directly to the,1) attitued and then, 2)the skill of the ECP.:idea:

  19. #19
    Forever Liz's Dad Steve Machol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrba
    That didn't ask the same question. I am interested in people who have actually tried many lenses and not just their old one size fits all mentality.
    I didn't say it did. I was just pointed this out for reference. :)


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  20. #20
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    Well Steve,

    I have tried many lenses on the market and have them in various frames at present for myself. I try to introduce the various ones in our office. My recomendations influence what my doc's are wearing and they have formulated their own opinions. We have several favorites that we use and we have a 99.5% sucess rate. May I note they are from a variety of manufacturer's.

    They are within a three teir pricing structure that we currently use.

    DUE TO THE WAY VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS RESPOND TO THESE QUESTIONS, I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SHARE MY THOUGHTS WITH YOU OUTSIDE OF THIS FORUM.:cheers:

    Bev

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