who will you vote for

[Robert Martellaro]

Looks like I am stuck with Obama. I hope he becomes a great President.

One thing for sure, he can't be worse than Bush! Hell, if he can get the Justice Dept. working again, and then just plays golf for the rest of his term, that would make him a better president right there.

I will vote for anyone who will guarantee McCain cant get in. The last thing we need is 4 more years of George W.

I could have voted for the 2000 model, but the 2008 model has run the straight talk express into the ditch.

I would have voted for Ron Paul if he got in. Its too bad the media wouldnt let him on TV.

I was ready to vote for Paul in the primary before my significant other persuaded (bribed, threatened, etc.) me to vote for Obama.

My voting strategy is to vote against incumbency; if you are holding office then I'm voting for your opponent. No exceptions. I would recommend that others do the same if you want to see a change in how Washington does the people's business.

[harry a saake]

what makes any of you obama fans not believe he is running because he wants to as much as he was selected, as the dems were pretty scared that hillary and her baggage would never make it.


I am Harry A Saake and i approved this message, in the hopes of getting rid of obama

[bob_f_aboc]

My voting strategy is to vote against incumbency; if you are holding office then I'm voting for your opponent. No exceptions. I would recommend that others do the same if you want to see a change in how Washington does the people's business.

This makes absolutely no sense!! What possible reason would a politician have for representing the will of the people, knowing that he will not be elected for a second term?

If everyone voted this philosophy, every politician would become totally corrupt and completely at the will of the highest paying lobbyists.

This kind of thinking is counter-productive to the system!

Voting needs to be based on your opinions, your beliefs, your faith, and most importantly, your heart! Your spouse, your boss, your minister, your neighbors, etc... should not decide for you, YOU should!

[For-Life]

what makes any of you obama fans not believe he is running because he wants to as much as he was selected, as the dems were pretty scared that hillary and her baggage would never make it.


I am Harry A Saake and i approved this message, in the hopes of getting rid of obama

What doesn't?

The guy is the inspiration for everything that is not Bush. Just because he is not a hardcore old conservative does not mean he is unamerican.

[harry a saake]

yes for life, a lot of big words and rhetoric, and then theres washington and the real world. Anyone with the way the economy is right now can spew those words and sound like a hero. For a guy you dont know what makes you believe all this jibe, do you really know this guy or just what you read and hear?, or are you like the vast majority that as long as it sounds different, ill buy it.

Thats why last week that now famous cover on the new yorker was trying to say, no one knows who they are and they have done a poor job of defining it

kind of reminds me of these flakey beauty pagaents, when all the young ladies had that same line, well i just want to make a difference.

[rbaker]

kind of reminds me of these flakey beauty pagaents, when all the young ladies had that same line, well i just want to make a difference.

And all of this coming from a "community organizer." Yikes . . . isnt that Al Sharptons job description.

[Canyon View]

Congress is

was

limited to a few important tasks in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. All other responsibilities are delegated to individuals or states.

Just like the vote was limited to white male protestant landowners over 21 year of age. Things change.

Spexvet,


Actually, Congress still is legally limited by Article I, Section 8. The only authority that can change these duties and limitations is an amendment to the Constitution. For instance, the federal income tax is now allowed by the 16th Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen...s_Constitution .
Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, (Article VI, Section 2), even acts of Congress, Supreme Court Rulings, and Presidential Executive Orders do not legally nullify the Constitution. Our government acts in many illegal ways today. Consider NASA, the National Endowment for the Arts, Drug Enforcement Administration, etc. These are all violations of the Constitution.


Things do change, and thankfully so. Since you bring up suffrage, consider the 19th Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninetee...s_Constitution , and the 15th Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen...s_Constitution .


The framers of the Constitution were wise enough to plan for change, and to provide a method for change. You can read about in in Article V of the Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article...s_Constitution . What a wonderful document!



P.S. - Semper Fi Rbaker!

[Canyon View]

It is also important to realize that we are a Constitutional Republic, not a pure Democracy. If we were a pure Democracy, then the majority of the citizens could vote to take away the minority's rights, money, property, and even life. We are not a nation ruled by one man, or even the majority of men (and women). We are a nation ruled by law, and the supreme law of the land is the Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supremacy_Clause .


As our nation continues to free itself from the foundations of the Constitution, it gradually turns itself into a Democracy. Since human nature is inherently evil, democracies always fail. There has never been a successful pure Democracy. Democracy is basically two wolves and a sheep deciding what is for lunch. We see it happening today. Special interest groups band together (to form majorities in Congress) and then vote themselves special privileges at the cost of other citizens. Teachers have done this. Farmers have done this. Optometrists and opticians have done this. Today, I found out that even architects do this.


The Constitution guarantees individual rights. Democracies guarantee mob rule.

[Canyon View]

Congress is

was

limited to a few important tasks in Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. All other responsibilities are delegated to individuals or states.

[QUOTE=Spexvet]Just like the vote was limited to white male protestant landowners over 21 year of age. Things change.


Spexvet,


Actually, Congress still is legally limited by Article I, Section 8. The only authority that can change these duties and limitations is an amendment to the Constitution. For instance, the federal income tax is now allowed by the 16th Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen...s_Constitution .
Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, (Article VI, Section 2), even acts of Congress, Supreme Court Rulings, and Presidential Executive Orders do not legally nullify the Constitution. Our government acts in many illegal ways today. Consider NASA, the National Endowment for the Arts, Drug Enforcement Administration, etc. These are all violations of the Constitution.


Things do change, and thankfully so. Since you bring up suffrage, consider the 19th Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninetee...s_Constitution , and the 15th Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen...s_Constitution .


The framers of the Constitution were wise enough to plan for change, and to provide a method for change. You can read about in in Article V of the Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article...s_Constitution . What a wonderful document!

[FullCircle]

Did i say anything about moving the state all of the way Right? And to your point, a Liberal Dem has been running the state for years and everything is getting worse not better. So i guess your point is that we should stay on Left and contuine on the present course of disaster w/way to many social programs and schools that are in state of disaray.

Your state has a host of problems causing it's current demise. I don't think you can lay them all at the feet of Democrats. Especially, like DragonLensMan said, the country is being run by a conservative right now. thats having a direct impact on your state

[Scott]

like DragonLensMan said, the country is being run by a conservative right now. thats having a direct impact on your state

Amazing that you can blame the state of Michigans economy on the current White House. You pointed out that Michigan has many problems which is very true, but it is not the WH wanting to raise the gas tax on the citizens. Full Circle, how do you feel about the 10.5% tax rate that went into effect in Chicago? I know that most of the people that I have spoken w/are not happy.

[gemstone]

It's amazing to me that as of this post, this poll is dead even. I really thought this board overwhelmingly democratic. I wonder how representative this cross section is.

[For-Life]

It's amazing to me that as of this post, this poll is dead even. I really thought this board overwhelmingly democratic. I wonder how representative this cross section is.

I always felt that this board was overwhelmingly republican. I am serious on that. I remember the Kerry bashers back in 2004.

[FullCircle]

Full Circle, how do you feel about the 10.5% tax rate that went into effect in Chicago?

First, it's not just Chicago, it's Cook County. Second, of course Im not thrilled by it. Third, I'm not willing to blame an entire political party for the actions of one idiot and his henchmen. Todd Stroger is a very underhanded, conniving man. I workl in a mall. I haven't seen that much of a diference in shopping habits that could be directly attributed to the increase. Me personally? I pay it or I combine trips and go to DuPage or Lake County. It is 1% which, since the price of gas is so out of hand, is still less than the gas I spend rather than walking or public trans

Amazing that you can blame the state of Michigans economy on the current White House. You pointed out that Michigan has many problems which is very true, but it is not the WH wanting to raise the gas tax on the citizens.

I didn't blame the white house, all I said was it was having an effect. Just like the auto industry is having an effect on your state

[Spexvet]

...
Voting needs to be based on your opinions, your beliefs, your faith, and most importantly, your heart! Your spouse, your boss, your minister, your neighbors, etc... should not decide for you, YOU should!

You should vote for who you think will be best for the COUNTRY, not you, the individual, the family, the town, the county, or the state.

yes for life, a lot of big words and rhetoric, and then theres washington and the real world.

You're right. Once someone gets to Washington, things seem to change.

Mr. Bush, by contrast, tried to stand above the fray, emphasizing bipartisanship and saying the presence of the Texas Democrats showed he was willing to work with ''both sides of the aisle to get something done.''

Anyone with the way the economy is right now can spew those words and sound like a hero.

And anyone could have sounded like a hero on Sept. 13, 2001.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."

- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

Thats why last week that now famous cover on the new yorker was trying to say, no one knows who they are and they have done a poor job of defining it

And just who is John McCain?

kind of reminds me of these flakey beauty pagaents, when all the young ladies had that same line, well i just want to make a difference.

Or repubicans "well i just want to cut taxes"

...
... Since human nature is inherently evil...

I'll go with selfish, but evil? Don't conservatives say that we're a Christian nation? Does that make Christians evil? You better watch yourself, Canyon. ;)

Special interest groups band together (to form majorities in Congress) and then vote themselves special privileges at the cost of other citizens.

See "bridge to nowhere". Each elected official is only interested in getting re-elected, and will do whatever it takes. Since only his constituents can re-elect him, he buys their votes - with money contributed by special interest groups and taxes generated from outside his constituency. He sells his soul to special interest goups to get the contributions, and approves his congressional cohorts' pork barrelling to get the tax dollars.

Teachers have done this. Farmers have done this. Optometrists and opticians have done this. Today, I found out that even architects do this.
...

Everyone has done it, or has tried.

... how do you feel about the 10.5% tax rate that went into effect in Chicago? I know that most of the people that I have spoken w/are not happy.

Nobody likes taxes. Additionally, nobody likes unsafe streets, unplowed streets, uncollected trash, etc, etc, etc.

[kidsparrow]

I'd argue that human nature, if there is such a general thing, is inherently good.

As to the voting argument, at least Obama doesn't joke about bombing and war. I'm shocked at McCain, someone who has suffered the consequences of war, can be so cavalier about it.

[rinselberg]

I'd argue that human nature, if there is such a general thing, is inherently good.. As to the voting argument, at least Obama doesn't joke about bombing and war. I'm shocked at McCain, someone who has suffered the consequences of war, can be so cavalier about it.

Unless it could be substantiated that McCain still jokes from time to time in front of a microphone about war, it would be more accurate to say that Obama "has never joked about war" and "I'm shocked that McCain could be so cavalier as to have once joked about war".

This post is spinning the issue by using the present tense when the past tense is wanted.

Jokes about war are as old as war itself: To joke about the unthinkable or the extreme is no more remarkable than someone who never crosses that line--and no great sin, as long as it's not an uncontrollable habit.

It's my pleasure to present (courtesy of YouTube) John McCain's rendition of "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran", sung to the tune of the Beach Boys' "Barbara Ann"..

[youtube]hAzBxFaio1I[/youtube]

You can read more about this not-so-recent non-event on "TheRawStory" online, which reported this much-ado-about-nothing type story under the title "Unplugged McCain sings 'Bomb, bomb, bomb.. Iran'".

I thought that McCain's "singing", which was all of about 10 seconds, was a refreshingly humorous moment bringing some welcome relief to a mostly drab and tedious political event.

McCain's joking was too "over the top" to be taken seriously except by lunatics, and if the perceptions of lunatics are the measure of what can be said for public record, then we must banish all jokes from the public domain and let political correctness reign supreme.

Not to imply that anyone here on OptiBoard is a lunatic--just indulging in some political spin.

[Spexvet]

Unless it could be substantiated that McCain still jokes from time to time in front of a microphone about war, it would be more accurate to say that Obama "has never joked about war" and "I'm shocked that McCain could be so cavalier as to have once joked about war".

This post is spinning the issue by using the present tense when the past tense is wanted.
...

Speaking of spin and inaccuracies:
[youtube]EiTpS4MK3D8[/youtube]
To specifically blame Obama NOW, for a position that has been held by a majority for decades, and was made an executive order by daddy bush, is misleading, even unethical (even for a repubican;)). Only a lunatic or a moron would fall for this kind of BS.

[kidsparrow]

Inappropriate joking isn't a once in a while thing for McCain, though:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...32180920080709

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...n-gambles.html

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2...-birth-control

I would hope that we could agree - there are some things that are not open for joking. McCain is a ghoul.

[For-Life]

Here is an interesting situation. There is a township about an hour from here. Very remote and has a population fo 2,000. It does have another municipality 15 minutes away with a population of 1,500. But nothing else within an hour.

About 2 years ago, the two communities jointly hired an economic development officer under a one year contract. After the contract, the one township created a permanent position for him in Economic Development. While they did not necessarily need him, the key note is that his wife is a doctor. These communities have an extremely difficult time getting doctors. To keep him employed kept the doctor in town.

Now, there are tax dollars employing him. So what is better - saving residents a $5 a year on their property taxes and losing a major asset in this doctor or keeping the doctor at a slight cost to taxpayers?

[Johns]

While they did not necessarily need him, the key note is that his wife is a doctor. These communities have an extremely difficult time getting doctors. To keep him employed kept the doctor in town.

Now, there are tax dollars employing him. So what is better - saving residents a $5 a year on their property taxes and losing a major asset in this doctor or keeping the doctor at a slight cost to taxpayers?

So tax dollars are being used for a service that's not needed? Wow! That's a new one!:bbg:

In the case of this community, they are using a government funded bribe to keep the dr in town. So, bribery's the answer. Again, nothing new here...

[For-Life]

So tax dollars are being used for a service that's not needed? Wow! That's a new one!:bbg:

In the case of this community, they are using a government funded bribe to keep the dr in town. So, bribery's the answer. Again, nothing new here...

Better than losing a valuable service and $300k out of the economy to save $5 a person.

[ziggy]

21 Obama, 22 Mccain: I think this is the way the country will go in November.

[DragonLensmanWV]

It's amazing to me that as of this post, this poll is dead even. I really thought this board overwhelmingly democratic. I wonder how representative this cross section is.

The conservatives always like to play the "I'm a minority and always discriminated against because I'm always outnumbered in the press, etc" and I wonder why they don't seem to like it when they find out they're not.

[Pete Hanlin]

What is so "wrong" about having government in our lives?

Well, glad to see there is consistency in a world of change, Spexvet. You're ability to make me miss a breath out of sheer exasperation seems neverending!

I would love to vote for Sen. Obama (just to see what its like to vote for Democrat for President), and if he can just stop promising to spend more and more and more of my money, I might be able to bring myself to do so. (He promises a tax cut for my level of earnings, but I've been keeping loose track of the money he is promising to spend, and its simply mindboggling- plus, he would cripple business in this country.)

Having read over both Sen. McCain's and Sen. Obama's interviews in an issue of Fortune (well-written pieces), I'm beginning to feel this may be the first election where I just stay home (that's really sad, but I don't think either of these guys are good for our country- one's a pretender, and the other is just genuinely misguided).