Is "education" really the answer employers are looking for?

,,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idispense

post 214 suggests Barry only wanted sales training nad nothing else, unless I read it wrong.

---

Seems to me they are in agreement.

Barry: "theoretical and technical training is simply NOT enough to make opticians seen by their employer as assets rather than expenses. WE need sales traing."

Johns: "You don't go to a job with only one tool in your tool box. If you only have technical, or only have sales training, you don't have enough tools to do the job properly. Why not have as many tools as possible?"

Barry thinks you should have technical and sales training. Johns thinks you should have technical and sales training.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gmc

Seems to me they are in agreement.

Barry: "theoretical and technical training is simply NOT enough to make opticians seen by their employer as assets rather than expenses. WE need sales traing."

Johns: "You don't go to a job with only one tool in your tool box. If you only have technical, or only have sales training, you don't have enough tools to do the job properly. Why not have as many tools as possible?"

Barry thinks you should have technical and sales training. Johns thinks you should have technical and sales training.

---

Whew! Thanks for summing that up, gmc!

B

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idispense

Personally I am absolutely 100 per cent totally in favor of higher education.

Next the above stats prove unequivocally that the education system is itself half the problem . The above results prove that these students are suffering from a poor education . The question is where in the education field did they fail ? Was their initial foundation in schooling at fault long before they got into an opticianry course or were their opticianry instructors at fault?

My guess is that that today's watered down education system in the public schools was the beginning of the problem and these students were advanced before their time and they should have been failed in the public school system .

That is a fault with the education sytem ! But I make no bones about it , I believe in higher education but I do not believe in the idea of advancing kids on a poor foundation . What you are seeing in the above tests results are the failings of early education and the failings of middle schools continuing that "no fail" philosophy , which is totally wrong .

So to all the educators out there, I say .... fix that first and stop passing people who do not deserve to be passed. You are propagating a falsehood . That falsehood is now reflected in your test results at higher levels . Next do not accept these people into a higher level course if they do not have the foundation to be there.

Grow a pair , fail people and insist on it .

---

Again, this is not Canada, and you do not understand the system here.The reason we are continually suggesting education is that there is NO school for the vast majority. In canada, you at least have to complete a formal education component. Here, they do on-the-job activities and learn very little. When these folks come to take state exams, they do fail, and the results are above. The really scarry thing is that in 27 states the only requirement is a pulse. We have no control over the primay and secondary education systems, but should have control over who enters this "profession".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idispense

Warren , you can try to bring all of the states into unison with one unified and defined educational approach (which has failed so far) or you can singularly take the one best and most excellent course in North America (Canada or the States) , brand that one school or course as "THE DEFINING COURSE for Professional Opticians" and then the others will follow you and that one course instead of trying to make all courses all equal and simultaneously good.

---

If you truly understood Marketing and the concept of branding, you would not ask questions that clearly show your lack of understanding of the subject matter. Taks a couple of courses, and really learn the material. It has not been effective in Canada, nor will it be here if it stnads aloner. It demands consistency. Youhave that in Canada, but not here. As to branding one school, that is done every day! It has not owrled yet, but maybe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idispense

Opticianry has very slowly advanced over the past 150 years from the bottom up instead of from the top down . Warren you are still trying to do things from the bottom up . That is a hard slow way to do things. The problem with that method is that technology (intenet dispensing) will pass you by before you can accomplish your goal. Try doing it the other way , it's faster and will not compromise your goals or age.

Set the standard first , brand that standard, license that standard of education to the other colleges, universities and states . Work from the national standard downwards and dispense that standard down to the Colleges and Univeristies . Do not work from the individual city chapter and try growing upwards to the national level. You do not have that much time left .


You have a very dedicated person and global thinker in the NFOS who understands this concept . Seek them out.

---

We are attempting to push the leadership to adopt formal education, stronger requirements to sit for national boards, and other things almost daily. That is the purpose of my many articles, lectures across the country and yes, posts on this board. Note that the recent summit just held is an example of folks seeing a need for education and training. I hope we will hear from them soon. I suspect it will be in a particular trade publication soon. But, I also want the masses to understand the need for such education. These folks are being short changed and do not even know what they do not know. It is not fair what we have done to them, and with each generation, we dumb the field doown even more. As to the NFOS, if you have an individual in mind I should contact, let me know. I am willing to do whatever it takes to help this field develop to its potential and stop the decline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barry Santini

Whew! Thanks for summing that up, gmc!

B

---

No kidding!

Most of us are all pushing for the same goals(s), now it's down to how to get there, and what components to include/emphasize.

Nobody here is advocating an either/or approach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johns

No kidding!

Most of us are all pushing for the same goals(s), now it's down to how to get there, and what components to include/emphasize.

Nobody here is advocating an either/or approach.

---

I don't believe this is a shared sentiment John - not with everyone on Optiboard, and certainly not within our industry nationwide. At least here of course, there are those who would rather shout down the dissenters, rather than stopping to truly listen to the what and the why. That's not conducive to effective change for anyone.

Anyway, this is another's take on the education bubble. Peter Thiel from PayPal raises some interesting thoughts and questions about the state of higher ed in the US today.

Is he the guy who wants to reduce the cost of college by decreasing the demand for college by paying 20 people not to go to college for 2 years? Or is that some other college educated billionaire?

Yup, that's the guy. As I said before, he and his ilk are simply thinning the herd. Interestingly, while there are college graduates with college debts in the $100K range, the AVERAGE college debt is $24K. Not great, but not crippling. However, should Congress fail to act, the interest rate on college loans will double this summer, just in time for the new crop of freshmen.

It'd be AWESOME if that happened... For me! I'll have my degree, and it'll be worth more, if no one else can afford to go.
Maybe that's what they're thinking...

Kinda sounds like it. Just like a century or so ago, there will be a new well-educated, well-heeled upper class. The rest of us will muddle along in the "trades".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uilleann

I don't believe this is a shared sentiment John - not with everyone on Optiboard, and certainly not within our industry nationwide.

---

First of all, I said most, not "everyone". I was referring to shared goals.

Don't most of us want:

-Higher pay for opticians?
-A clear definition of what opticianry is?
-National standards that allow opticians to practice equally, across the country?
-To be considered a profession and not a trade?
-To have a higher barrier to enter the field than just a pulse?

Those that don't share those goals, are clearly in the minority.

The state of having an OMD degree!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johns

First of all, I said most, not "everyone". I was referring to shared goals.

Don't most of us want:

-Higher pay for opticians?
-A clear definition of what opticianry is?
-National standards that allow opticians to practice equally, across the country?
-To be considered a profession and not a trade?
-To have a higher barrier to enter the field than just a pulse?

Those that don't share those goals, are clearly in the minority.

---

I don't believe for a second that "most of us want" these things. Not when "most of us" includes the chains, big boxes, domestic mega labs, insurance companies (many with their own labs as well) and internet vendors who are thriving in the current environment. Non educated staff are much more cost effective drain on company resources - even with slightly higher levels of breakages, they're still much cheaper to employ. There are a few that appreciate and may pay more for a higher skill set, but I would challenge anyone to prove that this sentiment is shared equally across the board by all national employers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uilleann

I don't believe for a second that "most of us want" these things. Not when "most of us" includes the chains, big boxes, domestic mega labs, insurance companies (many with their own labs as well) and internet vendors who are thriving in the current environment. Non educated staff are much more cost effective drain on company resources - even with slightly higher levels of breakages, they're still much cheaper to employ. There are a few that appreciate and may pay more for a higher skill set, but I would challenge anyone to prove that this sentiment is shared equally across the board by all national employers.

---

Huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johns

First of all, I said most, not "everyone". I was referring to shared goals.

Don't most of us want:

-Higher pay for opticians?
-A clear definition of what opticianry is?
-National standards that allow opticians to practice equally, across the country?
-To be considered a profession and not a trade?
-To have a higher barrier to enter the field than just a pulse?

Those that don't share those goals, are clearly in the minority.

---

Yeah, us, as in Opticians. We are the ones who make our destiny. WE define US. Allowing others to do so has gotten us where we are. No more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Uilleann

I don't believe for a second that "most of us want" these things. Not when "most of us" includes the chains, big boxes, domestic mega labs, insurance companies (many with their own labs as well) and internet vendors who are thriving in the current environment. Non educated staff are much more cost effective drain on company resources - even with slightly higher levels of breakages, they're still much cheaper to employ. There are a few that appreciate and may pay more for a higher skill set, but I would challenge anyone to prove that this sentiment is shared equally across the board by all national employers.

---

Sorry, I confused you with one of "us"...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wmcdonald

If you truly understood Marketing and the concept of branding, you would not ask questions that clearly show your lack of understanding of the subject matter. Taks a couple of courses, and really learn the material. It has not been effective in Canada, nor will it be here if it stnads aloner. It demands consistency. Youhave that in Canada, but not here. As to branding one school, that is done every day! It has not owrled yet, but maybe.

---

Consistency in education is one thing, but even without that consisitency in education you can still brand "optician" , "Registered Optician" , or what ever name rocks your boat. It's a tool that can be used to help you promote education . Educating the public as to what an optician is and what an optician does is a goal of branding. Armani is a brand but it does not refer to only one model of frame . Chevrolet is a brand but there are many models of a Chevrolet. A Chevette and a Corvette are different qualities within the overall brand.

Defining what an optician is and what the public should expect from an optician can be achieved through branding and the consistent advertising of that brand will help your goals of education to become a reality.

Branding opticians would be a step forward to counteract the effect of the internet unlicensed vendors . Forget your unlicensed states if you willl for just a moment and think of the benefits of advertising a consistent message about opticians in licensed states . Educating the public will also help to educate your politicians and help the overall total goal that you seek.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johns

First of all, I said most, not "everyone". I was referring to shared goals.

Don't most of us want:

-Higher pay for opticians?
-A clear definition of what opticianry is?
-National standards that allow opticians to practice equally, across the country?
-To be considered a profession and not a trade?
-To have a higher barrier to enter the field than just a pulse?

Those that don't share those goals, are clearly in the minority.

---

Finally some clarity in the discussion! Thank you.

,,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idispense

The talk of consistency in education is admirable and desirable but that does not insure consisitency in the graduates. Some will graduate with the bare minimum of a pass and some will graduate with the highest of marks . Some with the lowest marks will be great dispensers and some with the highest marks and technical know how will not be great dispensers in the field .

---

Yes, all graduates will be judged as having passed the bare minimum of standards, of which we now have none.

That is the first step towards branding...establish minimum standards.





A guy throws 4 balding tires onto a rusting chassis, and pushes it down a hill. Bystanders look and say, "There goes a Chevy!" (They probably wouldn't)

A guy throws a tie on, walks into an optical and bends a temple. Bystanders look and say, "There's an optician!" (They do)

Hi Idispense,
Warren had talked on OB about getting opticians together to meet anywhere Atlanta ,Ga. was the place. This is were opticians came and talked.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CuriousCat

I am sad for my chosen profession.

By all means, stay stupid, but be prepared to be passed over again and again by educated professionals. This discussion, if you can call it that, is inane and unproductive. It's in an open forum where everyone and anyone can see how few of us deserve to be thought of as eyecare professionals.

---

........................and that pretty well sums up this thread which has so far resulted into the same as every other one that went over the screen lately. I have seen the outcome when I saw the first post by the author who is a master in starting controversity and probably just loves the outcome.

Learning is a treasure that will follow its owner everywhere.

Chinese Proverb

Above chinese proverb has been followed by the Chinese themselves who have sent their young ones to western countries to study and learn for the last 30 or more years. Where did it get them...............just look at pictures on line and see the difference between 40 years ago and today.

Talking optics which they dominate these days, they have made it, while our infra structure is going to hell, theirs is brand new and they are probably the richest country in the world.

Until we change our ways of thinking over the next few years and progress to a new world way of doing it, we will not be selling glasses anymore that are developed and made by people that have progressed by far in comparison with the knowdledge used by our North American minds.

,,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by idispense

In this story is the Chevvy the minimum standards ?

---

No way! The tie is.