Review: Zero Fog

[edKENdance]

Product: Zero Fog
Vendor: OMS
Vendor Home Page: http://www.optochemicals.com
Category: Other
Reviewer: Ken Bond

Ratings:
Quality: http://www.optiboard.com/images/2star.gif
Ease of use: http://www.optiboard.com/images/2star.gif
Client acceptance (if applicable): N/A
Customer service of the manufacturer or distributor: http://www.optiboard.com/images/3star.gif
Value: http://www.optiboard.com/images/1star.gif
Overall: http://www.optiboard.com/images/2star.gif

Review:
I received my sample today and was excited to test it out. I started with my own variation on the freezer test. I took one pair of poly and one pair of glass lenses in frames and put them in the freezer. Only minus 5 and not nearly as harsh as it can get here. Took them out after 15-20 minutes and wore them till the fog dissapeared. It took about 3.5 minutes. I then applied Zero Fog to the lenses as specified on the label and put them back in the freezer. After 15-20 minutes I took them out and wore them. The time period to defog was the same- 3.5 minutes for both pairs.

I then did a test on one lens in a pair treating one lens and leaving the other untreated. This time they only went in the fridge. There was no discernable difference in defogging time. I hit the manufacturers website for more detailed info and made sure I had applied the zerofog correctly. I did not however use a "kleenex" as specified for I thought that a microfibre would be more suitable. Obviously when a company creates a product, a lot of time money and effort go into it's making. If I were a consumer that was purchasing this product I would be out a buck or 2 and feel like the "no fog" thing just can't happen in my reality. It might be different for folks using this product in different climates and ours is pretty severe up here.

Sorry Chris, I was expecting a miracle. If there was anything that I did or didn't do in the application of the product that I should have I would appreciate knowing, also in terms of anti fogging, how high can consumers expectations be raised and how effective can we meet those. The final dilema is the one where marketing meets reality. You can't have a pair of glasses that can be both a functional sunglass and an indoor pair no matter how much the transitions people tell you that you can. After way to many remakes I am sure of this. As a consumer I seek frank and detailed knowledge to help me best use the product. My expectations were raised but my results let me down.

I took the ZeroFog to work today to perform the the tea kettle and breath tests. I used a pair of src cr-39 and was blown away by the results. I treated one lens and held over boiling water. The zero fog lens was perfect. This intriguied meso I put the cr-39 in the freezer. I took it out and the untreated lens fogged but the other lens was perfect. I thought that I had maybe incorrectly applied the zero fog in the first tests so I performed them again with the same glass lenses that I had brought with me. The results were poor as with the first tests. I dont know why this product works so well with cr-39 but not with glass or poly. Basically, Zero-Fog gets a 5 star rating when applied to cr-39 but fails completely when applied to glass or polycarb.

[Lee Prewitt]

Product: Zero Fog
Vendor: OMS
Vendor Home Page: http://www.optochemicals.com
Category: Other
Reviewer: Lee Prewitt

Ratings:
Quality: http://www.optiboard.com/images/2star.gif
Ease of use: http://www.optiboard.com/images/4star.gif
Client acceptance (if applicable): N/A
Customer service of the manufacturer or distributor: http://www.optiboard.com/images/5star.gif
Value: http://www.optiboard.com/images/3star.gif
Overall: http://www.optiboard.com/images/2star.gif

Review:
Finally took the time to use the No Fog sample that Chris kindly sent. I tried it on my AR coated lenses per his directions. The sample included a fact sheet with all the claims and how to apply the product. Popped the lenses into the office freezer for a minute and then put them on my face. Refreshing but the lenses did fog up. The top 1/5th of the lenses did in fact fog up. It also seems to mess up my AR in that it is not as clear.

After the test the residue cleaned off with AR cleaner. My quick results would be not to recommend this product as I feel that it really does not work well as stated. Tested lenses a second time (applied Zero Fog again) with minimal improvement in performance. Lenses still fogged out of the freezer and also over steam. Lenses did perform better at room temp and with steam but lenses are still very smeared looking. Even after second results I still would not recommend this product.

Would you purchase this product or other products from this company based on your experience with this product?
Likely

[Chris Ryser]

Thanks for your review


Zero-Fog has been on the market since 1996.

Zero-Fog sells in Switzerland, England, Canada, Central America, the Caribean Islands, Brazil, Japan, Korea, Malaysia and other countries to the tune of about 100.000 units per year.

It works for a company in Brazil manufacturing water-meters.

1 major swim goggle company sells it worldwide and a second one just jumped in.

There is a Swiss Government certificate of use and safety. It has been tested right and left already years ago.

THE PRODUCT WORKS 100% IN EVERY AND ANY CASE AND CONDITION UNLESS:

unless it is NOT on the lens surface

The instructions on the bottle say both in English and in French, in Europe in German and French the following:

Spray Zero-Fog on each side of lens.Wipe dry immediately with a soft cloth. Apply Zero-Fog again on each side and rub into surface with finger and with same cloth (which is now wet). You can also just let it dry.

If the residue has been fully wiped off, there is nothing to help prevent fogging up. The chemical has to be on the whole surface in order to be affective. No chemical on the lens surface will give you zero results, partial coverage will give partial results and full coverage will give you a 100% positive result.

You probably spayed it on and wiped it totally or partially off and here we go ..............NO GOOD.

Please try it again and just for arguments sake let the stuff dry on the surface. Then place it for 30 seconds in the freezer and remove it and you will see no fogging up whatover on any part where there is a chemical residue on the surface.

You can also check the antistatic properties by rubbing the lens on a preferably artificial cloth, like nylon for a few seconds which will give the lens a strong static charge. The hold it over an ashtray with some cigarette ashes at about one half inch distance. It should not attract any ashes if properly done as will an untreated lens.

Both of above described tests are fully accepted scientific tests.



Chris Ryser, President OMS

website: http://optochemicals.com

[Chris Ryser]

I have heard and read these same arguments before. I can only repeat:

If there is no chemical residue on a treated surface IT DOES NOT WORK.

A spray on wipe off can not work if it has been wiped off.

==============

here is the same response as the on the other posting:



Thanks for your review


Zero-Fog has been on the market since 1996.

Zero-Fog sells in Switzerland, England, Canada, Central America, the Caribean Islands, Brazil, Japan, Korea, Malaysia and other countries to the tune of about 100.000 units per year.

It works for a company in Brazil manufacturing water-meters.

1 major swim goggle company sells it worldwide and a second one just jumped in.

There is a Swiss Government certificate of use and safety. It has been tested right and left already years ago.

THE PRODUCT WORKS 100% IN EVERY AND ANY CASE AND CONDITION UNLESS:

unless it is NOT on the lens surface

The instructions on the bottle say both in English and in French, in Europe in German and French the following:

Spray Zero-Fog on each side of lens.Wipe dry immediately with a soft cloth. Apply Zero-Fog again on each side and rub into surface with finger and with same cloth (which is now wet). You can also just let it dry.

If the residue has been fully wiped off, there is nothing to help prevent fogging up. The chemical has to be on the whole surface in order to be affective. No chemical on the lens surface will give you zero results, partial coverage will give partial results and full coverage will give you a 100% positive result.

You probably spayed it on and wiped it totally or partially off and here we go ..............NO GOOD.

Please try it again and just for arguments sake let the stuff dry on the surface. Then place it for 30 seconds in the freezer and remove it and you will see no fogging up whatover on any part where there is a chemical residue on the surface.

You can also check the antistatic properties by rubbing the lens on a preferably artificial cloth, like nylon for a few seconds which will give the lens a strong static charge. The hold it over an ashtray with some cigarette ashes at about one half inch distance. It should not attract any ashes if properly done as will an untreated lens.

Both of above described tests are fully accepted scientific tests.



Chris Ryser, President OMS

website: http://optochemicals.com

[Steve Machol]

Is it possible the hydorphobic top coating onthe AR is causing this problem? :confused: After all these top coatings are designed so that materials will not adhere to them. And as Chris said, if the Zero Fog isn't there - it won't work.

[Lee Prewitt]

I know that I did not test the product on non coated lenses but I still feel it did not perform as well as I expected. I did my test twice, following directions, and still achieved similar results. It seems that the other review by edkendance even went to a higher level of testing with similar results. My clients would not care for a product that is so cumbersome to apply with the marginal results that I received. Sorry that it did not perform better but if it is so difficult to apply by many opticians ( as alluded) what will happen to the average consumer?

[hcjilson]

I think the secret is to just let it dry after the second application. I am writing from home without the sample to refer to but I do not recall the suggestion to just let it dry. Would have been simpler to include that.We can't be the first people that have made that mistake!
hj

[Chris Ryser]

You just hit the the head of the nail.

Whichever way the application, it does have to contain a chemical residue on the lens surface or it will or can NOT perform.

[hcjilson]

If you just let it dry, the AR lens will show up as blotchy, even if you spread it around with your fingers, zero fog still concentrates in areas on the lens which are visible to the wearer.

I just took my AR's out of the freezer. Sure enough the circular area I spread the zero fog on did NOT fog up! The edges did fog up but thats probably because I only rubbed the center. Blotches still showed up.

My feeling is that this product is an excellent no fog treatment for Non AR lenses, Particularly CR-39- (Probably 85 % of the market) I don't think I would recomend it to AR wearers.

When the current supply of containers runs out, I would suggest rewording the instructions to make them clearer to the wearer. If we made mistakes on the application, the general public will too!

hj

[Chris Ryser]

Steve Machol said:
Is it possible the hydorphobic top coating onthe AR is causing this problem? :confused: After all these top coatings are designed so that materials will not adhere to them. And as Chris said, if the Zero Fog isn't there - it won't work.

Thanks Steve, could be the case, depending on the top coat applied.
There is another solution for AR coated lenses. Please see my answer to Harry.

[Chris Ryser]

hcjilson said:
If you just let it dry, the AR lens will show up as blotchy, even if you spread it around with your fingers, zero fog still concentrates in areas on the lens which are visible to the wearer.

I just took my AR's out of the freezer. Sure enough the circular area I spread the zero fog on did NOT fog up! The edges did fog up but thats probably because I only rubbed the center. Blotches still showed up.

My feeling is that this product is an excellent no fog treatment for Non AR lenses, Particularly CR-39- (Probably 85 % of the market) I don't think I would recomend it to AR wearers.

When the current supply of containers runs out, I would suggest rewording the instructions to make them clearer to the wearer. If we made mistakes on the application, the general public will too!

hj

Thanks Harry,

We do have to make some corrections as suggested.

I just took a run to our testing lab and checked your findings and have to admit you got a good point on the AR surface remarks.

Try to clean the blotchy parts with a DRY tissue, this will spread the chemicals more even over the surface.




However there is another way to render AR coatings anti fog

You can apply an anti-fog top coat on top of anything else on a AR coating, and it will adhere to it.

Actually just before writing this post while in the testing lab I did one just to make sure that what I am writing makes sense.

I applied it to an ESSILOR reflexion free AR coated lens. Placed into the freezer for 45 seconds and removed it.

Result: It showed about 5-10% fogging which disapeared within exactly 5 seconds.

I will tell my guy's to send you a sample bottle today and you can do some more testing. I appreciate some feedback from optical professionals.

[Steve Machol]

Note, to simply things I have combined these two separate threads into one.

[hcjilson]

and he was doing the retesting the way I did. He didn't put them in the freezer he gave them the breath test. They too fogged up but as Chris said, they cleared in about 5 seconds. I'll let Sean comment further but thats what I saw. jh

[jjconcepts]

after reading the long and widely differing results, I am looking forward to recieving a sample from chris. I have several people, from competition mountain bikers to polaris' snowmobile teams to outfit for. In addition to your tests, I will let you know the realtime application results-most people I work with don't demand the unusual conditions of heads in and out of freezers, and breathing on the inside of the lens.

Did anyone come up with resilts under front to rear surface temperature and humidity differences?


What anti-fog works best?

I am looking for a seasonal coating for the teams, as well as an on-site application for redundancy.

[edKENdance]

This is really cool! Not only do we have a product review discussion, but it is occurring between optiboarders and the manufacturer and ideas are being generated and changes made.
All the best Chris,

Water Metres in Brazil (Neat)

Ken

[Chris Ryser]

edKENdance said:
This is really cool! Not only do we have a product review discussion, but it is occurring between optiboarders and the manufacturer and ideas are being generated and changes made.
All the best Chris,

Water Metres in Brazil (Neat)

Ken

Thank Ken,

I enjoy it too, to have a lively discussion and can take some critics. Some are justified and I can only learn from them, some are not and maybe the other side can learn, if they feel like it.

It is actually refreshing having a setup like Optiboard and I for sure will help it along if I can, to make it a lively place to be on the net.

[hcjilson]

Ken,
Good of you to point that out. I view this thread with some responsibility because I'm the one who suggested that this product be reviewed after Chris kindly offered to send samples to those wanting to try it.

Obviously I was not expecting what happened and I didn't quite know how to handle it. Chris has been very supportive of this board and its mission and I didn't want his feelings to be hurt with a less than positive review. I also am commited to the reviewer to "call them as you see them" As usual the membership showed its class and put things in their proper perspective, allowing that the product had some drawbacks but putting a positive spin on them. Thank you Ken and Chris.....That's wisdom to finish the day!:):)

[edKENdance]

You forgot to...:drop:

[Chris Ryser]

Ken,

Just have not been back to this forum in the last few days and missed you comments.

As I have said before:

{b] No product applied to a surface will work if it is NOT there.[/B]

You applied it and then WIPED IT OFF, after which operation you proceeded to make your test's.

Would it not have made sense, after having seen a disastrous result, that maybe you could have made an error?

suggestion,

Do another test,


a) clean the lens with anything you want.

b) spray ZERO-FOG on lens.

c) rub it around the surface and let it dry.

d) do your test's over again

Here are the officially valid and accepted 2 methods for testing hydrophilic materials, (which are ant-fog and anti-static protection, [B]they go together[B]:

1) place substrate into freezer for 45 seconds. Remove and cheque if substrate fogs up, and measure time until dissipation.

2) rub treated substrate on a nylon fibre cloth for a few seconds to give it a static charge. Hold substrate over an ashtray with some light cigarette ashes at 1/2 inch distance. Substrate should not attract the ashes even if you move it a bit closer.

If you still get and see some fogging up I would like to hear from you and you can call me on our toll free line at 800-461-6637