ARC and Transitions

[Jo]

What is the proper method for AR coating Transitions?

We were recently told that photochromics should be back AR coated only in order for the lens to darken at all. This is the first time I have encountered this issue. Normally, we just order Transitions or any other photochromic with AR. Does this apply to specific brands only or does it apply to Transitions as well? Could it have been because the AR coating ordered was also scratch coated?

[Jim Schafer]

All Transitions Lenses are AR Coated with several premium AR coatings (at the particular AR manufacturers HQ's in the US and Europe) during research and development process. The AR lens performance is then compared to non AR coated lenses.
We have the AR Companies run their evaluations on the Transitions products too. We have to meet their criteria to go on with the projects. By the time a product is launched we will have reached most of the equipment manufacturers and AR Centers with product samples to work on.
There is no AR Coating (designed for plastic) from a major player that is not adaptable for Transitions.
We started doing this in 1993.
AR Coating Centers now approach us for product when they are developing new coatings, equipment or process changes.
We have a list of labs that we have qualified as AR Approved on our website. That list is being updated for the Next Generation launch.
Who told you to only backside coat? This is a old wives tale left over from our pilot days in 1989.
Were you aware we offer stock FSV already AR coated by Crizal, Reflection FreeNP, Pentax and SOLA UTMC. All coated on both sides
By the way, all Transitions employees wear AR coated lenses. Check them out at any tradeshow or talk to your Transitions Solutions Team rep for your area.

[Jo]

Who told you to only backside coat? It is a local lab that doesn't do in-house coating. The excuse passed on to me may have originated at the coating lab they use. I thought it was funny; we've never run into a backside versus front and back coating issue before.We have a list of labs that we have qualified as AR Approved on our website. Thanks! I didn't know you had a list of approved labs online.Were you aware we offer stock FSV already AR coated by Crizal, Reflection FreeNP, Pentax and SOLA UTMC. All coated on both sides No, I wasn't aware that you could get all of the major coatings on stock lenses. That is good to know.

Thanks for all of the info Jim! I'm off to find out who carries stock FSV Transitions with AR now.

[Jo]

From the EyeCare business Online (http://www.eyecarebiz.com/archive_results.asp?article=50397) archives:
Some of the photochromic manufacturers claim a longer active life for their photochromic lenses when they are AR coated.Is this true with Transitions?

[Jim Schafer]

Hello Jo,
Yes that statement is true about Transitions®Lenses. AR coatings protect both the photochromic compounds and the lens matrix from oxygen. The AR coating acts as an oxygen barrier. Organic compounds are sensitive to oxygen, by keeping out oxygen, the catalyst that starts the chemical reaction (called photo oxidation from the suns light energy and oxygen) that break down organics is slowed by about 50% over the life of a lens. (We use 2 years as a benchmark since we promote patients visiting their ecp's every two years.)
FYI
AR coatings will also protect and preserve a clear lens from age discoloring (that yellow look). Free Radicals from the photo oxidation will create a dye (usually yellow or orange). The AR acting as an oxygen barrier and in some cases a screen to short wave lengths, protect the organic substrate.

regards
Jim

[Jo]

AR coatings will also protect and preserve a clear lens from age discoloring (that yellow look).This is a pro for AR coating Transitions.

Is there anything in the works to produce a lens that if AR coated will turn a darker shade when activated?

[Jim Schafer]

Jo,
The premium brand AR Coatings and the house brand coatings that are offered by labs that participate in our in house validations have little or no effect on Transitions Lens products performance (activation and fade speeds and darkness). Our website and Fax on Demand have features that list the 80 some labs that we have worked with.
Jim

[Steve Machol]

FYI - when I developed a brand name coating for a major manufacturer, I always sent samples off to Jim for analysis prior to qualifying the coating. We qualified every machine that produced our coating. Transitions has a very nice program to help AR Coaters ensure compatibility with their products.

Jim, that was a very good explanantion on the effect of AR coating on Transitions lenses. While I was aware of the beneficial affects of blocking short wavelengths, I honestly hadn't thought about the oxygen angle before. Thanks for adding to my knowledge!

[hcjilson]

I hesitate to ask this question....but if the AR coating protects and prolongs the life of a Transitions lens, then why haven't the AR, or for that matter the Transitions people, promoted this? Perhaps they have but I am not aware of it.It would seem to be a natural add on, and simply done with POP table tents.
best from Harry J

[Jim Schafer]

Hello HC,
We have been promoting Transitions®Lens with AR as the perfect pair for at least 5 years. In April 1999 we did a 8 city seminar promotion with Carl Zeiss USA hosted by Transitions Optical and the local Carl Zeiss affiliated labs.
The event consisted of one hour ABO seminar on photochromics that was followed with 20 minutes of photochromics and AR. Of course the evening was a typical Transitions event of good people, food and drink.
We had almost 700 people in San Diego, over 400 in Portland. We also did Salt Lake City, Seattle, San Antonio, Cleveland, Dayton and Minneapolis. The smallest crowd was 150 people on a rainy cold spring night, no one should have been out that night, but the local ecp's did not want to miss the event.
regards,
Jim

[hcjilson]

Jim,
I guess I should get out more!Particularly San Diego! Does Transition have any POP brochures on AR?
also,
Has crazing been a problem?
harry J

[Steve Machol]

Harry,

Form my experience as an AR Coater, crazing should be no more of a problem on Transitions products than any other plastic lens lens material.

[optigoddess]

Today, I had a "die-hard" Transitions customer - NOTHING but Transitions for this nice lady. During our discussion, she mentioned some things that led me to believe that she would benefit from A/R. Well, prior to reading this thread, I was under the impression that you just don't "do" Transitions plus A/R (the line I had always heard was....the Transitions won't change well with the A/R).

So, after reading this thread, I felt comfortable with recommending the combination to her. She can't wait to try it!

Her O.D. and I were discussing this and the O.D was under the impression that the Transitions don't change "well" with A/R. AND, the Dr then asked about whether the lens was coated on the front, back or both!

As I type, I am printing this thread out for the Dr and the rest of the team!

Thanks for helping to clear up some mis-information....

Karen :cheers:

[Steve Machol]

Karen,

Transitions does ensure that any qualified AR coating on thier products meets established criteria for photochromic performance. The key is to make sure that you are dealing with an AR Lab that has gone through the qualification process. Here's a link to a list of approved labs on the Transitions site:

http://www.transitions.com/transitions6/index.asp?id=97

[optigoddess]

Thanks, Steve. I checked the list and the 2 labs we use are on the Platinum Elite list - (I just hope that's a "good thing"- I'm sure it is....ha!)

I guess that this little encounter has shown me that although I feel I keep up with the latest advancements & enhancements you just shouldn't assume that what you have been told "eons" ago is still accurate.....Lesson Learned....

Karen:cool:

[Jim Schafer]

AR Update....
I have received about 40% of the Next Generation AR validation lenses back from the labs and coating centers. This group includes the national\global premium brands and independent premium house brands.
The results are better than what we expected. We expected some performance variance between AR brands and even same AR brand but from different locations. What I have found is absolute minimum to no change in performance speed, darkness and fade back regardless of brand.

I truly believe that this is the result of the commitment labs and coating centers have placed in upgrading AR Coating technologies that improved quality, durability along with cosmetic and vision comfort enhancements.

A Next Generation Transitions Lens is a clear lens product that turns sunlens dark outside. Indoors transmission is 89% (11%tint) or as clear as clear poly and is indistinguishable from clear CR-39® (92%T).

With AR, the Next Generation (both Gray and Brown) are picking up almost 6 pts of transmission to 94.7% T or 5.3% tint.
Jim

[JRS]

Just got my Rx done in Transitions NP w/ Crizal AR. Outstanding product Jim.

[Jo]

I have never been a fan of potochromics, not even PGX, but after selling a couple pair of the Transitions Next Generation lenses I might actually get a pair with ARC for myself too. I have been around through a couple of Transitions lines and I've never been thrilled about the color when darkened but I am actually impressed by Next Generation.

[Jo]

JRS said:
Just got my Rx done in Transitions NP w/ Crizal AR. Outstanding product Jim. I just ordered mine today, Transitions NG Panamic with Crizal!

[John R]

Jim Schafer said:
All Transitions Lenses are AR Coated with several premium AR coatings (at the particular AR manufacturers HQ's in the US and Europe) during research and development process. The AR lens performance is then compared to non AR coated lenses.


Do you have any info on which european, in main UK coaters who have submitted for the NG lenses..
Have found the lenses to be great but have grown used to AR coated lenses and would like to get these done.

[Jim Schafer]

Hello John,
I do not know all the players in Europe country by country.
I do know our Development people at Transitions LTD. in Tuam Ireland work with Leybold, Carl Zeiss, Satis Vacuum, Rupp und Hubrach, BBGR and Essilor of France along with the other labs and chains who offer Transitions Lenses and AR.
Dymphna Ormond is my counterpart in Europe. Her email address is DOrmond@transitions.ie
I am sure she can point you to a local AR facility she has worked with.
regards,
Jim

[John R]

Many thanks Jim.