MSRP good or bad!

[optirep]

Many companies require selling their product on or above MSRP. Also many companies do not allow you to advertise their product at a discounted rate.

I personally think this protects the Independent opticain! They don't have to worry if they are being undercut by the store down the street(Independent or chain store) and they can attract business because they are GOOD not because they are CHEAP!


What do you think?



___________________________________________

[Barry Santini]

NO company can *make* you sell their product at Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price. They can, however, have policies and procedure to police the advertisement of prices below their suggested Retail...

And then there's Maui Jim, who says that their MSRP is Minimum Manufacturer Suggested Price.

????

Barry

[RustyS]

I agree with you optirep. I also understand what you said Barry and it is technically illegal and a violation of fair trade but the people who usually employ dealership agreements are the smaller independant boutique manufacturers and retailers. In the case of Chanel the dealership agreement is from CHANEL not Luxxottica to protect the line. If i did a high end line I would want it represented right and the people who did it I would protect. For mine and their business and not open up discounters or other accounts in the face of someone who respects our relationship. Like most all fashion houses. The dealership agreement mostly used by independents is great. Like when you have been in business 15 years and a guy opens up next door with no self identity so he goes to check out what you have and tries to get the same product to undercut your every sale instead of relying on research, initiative, and innovation. Which hurts everyone. We are talking luxury goods here not something like Polo which is widely represented. If your dealing with mass market lines its truly dog eat dog.

[HarryChiling]

If your dealing with mass market lines its truly dog eat dog.

Most people on this board seem to think that the branded lines that are mass market are where the independent makes their money. Or at least that's what some of the manufacturers push. If we were to start a thread on High End lines I would guess that most on this board would include the mass market brands in that group when in reality they are posers.

[RustyS]

Most people on this board seem to think that the branded lines that are mass market are where the independent makes their money. Or at least that's what some of the manufacturers push. If we were to start a thread on High End lines I would guess that most on this board would include the mass market brands in that group when in reality they are posers.


Absolutely 100% percent correct great post.

and if i may add lot of independents are then contributing to their own demise :cheers:

[HarryChiling]

I have been preaching that for a while and even my own office won't listen. The funny thing is that they bring CE's to me as proof that branding works, but then ignore the businesses numbers.:hammer:

and if i may add lot of independents are then contributing to their own demise :cheers:
But it's being served on a designer platter so it's OK.:D

[RustyS]

pardon poetic license but this is the web


FADE IN

INT day "Independent optical shop"

Jane a rep from a major manufacturer sits with an optician showing her frames while 3 other reps from same company sit nearby waiting for their appt.

JANE Isnt this great. Ill just send these they are XXXX so they will sell for sure. You know this job is not much different from my last one selling industrial cleansers

OPTICIAN, Oh for sure. you guys getting ready for show.

Jane Uggh I hate the shows. I know you guys never go. I wouldnt either how many different nose pads are there anyway haha, but like always you will be my first appt when i get back to make sure you get the newest first.

OPTICIAN Oh yeah thanks i really appreciate that. You make my life so easy.

JANE OK i wanna show you my new collection XXXX now i know it looks just like my other line XXXX but this little piece of sprayed on tortoise effect will appeal to the 18-22 year olds and say im bold and provocative.

OPTICIAN Oh yeah XXXX clothing everyone is wearing it.

JANE Thats why we gave him 1,000,000$ cash and 15 bucks a frame.

Optician UHmm I am not supposed to put in any more lines

JANE dont worry I will exchange it with any other of our 63 lines if it wont sell and they look the same anyway.

Opician your right just send it. thank you so much

JANE No prob your my best account


Chip Anderson walks in with his messiah 001 collection (previous post) to meet optician.

CHIP Hi i am a frame designer and i wanted to come in say hi.

OPTICIAN do you have an appointment

CHIP well... uhh i just wanted to introduce myself and tell you what im doing its revolutionary. are you going to the show i will be in the suites because i cannot spend the 50k to get a booth

OPTICIAN You reps are so rude coming in here without an appt. Im busy and have a very busy office. If i want your collection ill call. We have plenty right now and are not putting in new lines. I dont go to the shows they come to me and if i do i never go to suites. Im too busy when im there getting CE's sponsored by XXXX collection to sell more and I get a hawaiian shirt for attending.

[chip anderson]

Has anyone ever been troubled by the fact that discounts and minimal requirements are designed to strangle smaller accounts and reward larger ones. The real difficulty for the smaller shops which might just be able to promote quality merchandise better but have a much higher cost/return ratio due to limited space/financing and smaller volumes.
Don't want to sound like communist here but in this manner all such practices are blatently discriminatory.
And the concept that companies you have established accounts with requireing you go "buy in" with minimums for "new lines" is rediculous merchandising gimmic. An account with Lux (or whomever) should be an account with Lux, you should be able to buy any product with a company with which you have an established account an any quantity.
The sillyness that you have to have x pieces of a line to sell it is hogwash. If you only link one piece of a line and want to stock just that one, why not.

Chip:finger:

[RustyS]

in dealing with any line I think you have to have so many pieces of that collection to get an idea of what it is. If a collection only had one frame i like I would pass on it entirely. If your a wholesale company or a rep you want to have an account who does business and you and both support each other. If you can make two appts a day and the guy wants to buy 1 this is not even worth servicing. I would imagine if he wants an open account that means not only wont he support my product but if someone comes in with a style number he can order it. That means that the customer tried it on at an account who probably had 40+ pieces in stock and was showing it so it was selling through and we were in a symbiotic relationship instead of parasitic. Personally if im buying for a store i don't have more than 10-15 lines. The lines I carry will be represented because i like what they do. I reorder frames on a weekly basis. If i know the rep will be in soon I sell down a little to cover my exchanges. If your doing business like this no rep will ever give you a prob over exchanges but its nice for him/her to get a little cash in his pocket to ease the pain of a small order but they know i will call in 20 pieces a month.

[cocoisland58]

in dealing with any line I think you have to have so many pieces of that collection to get an idea of what it is. If a collection only had one frame i like I would pass on it entirely. If your a wholesale company or a rep you want to have an account who does business and you and both support each other. If you can make two appts a day and the guy wants to buy 1 this is not even worth servicing. I would imagine if he wants an open account that means not only wont he support my product but if someone comes in with a style number he can order it. That means that the customer tried it on at an account who probably had 40+ pieces in stock and was showing it so it was selling through and we were in a symbiotic relationship instead of parasitic. Personally if im buying for a store i don't have more than 10-15 lines. The lines I carry will be represented because i like what they do. I reorder frames on a weekly basis. If i know the rep will be in soon I sell down a little to cover my exchanges. If your doing business like this no rep will ever give you a prob over exchanges but its nice for him/her to get a little cash in his pocket to ease the pain of a small order but they know i will call in 20 pieces a month.

I order Ray Bans piece by piece because we only sell a certain style to our many pilots that come to us. Maui Jim we no longer stock becasue the boss took offense to the fact that they were also in Costco. When we did have them I had no issues with discounting them as needed per sale but did not advertise discounts. I only deal with nine reps and that is plenty. The low end stuff is just ordered through the catalog when we run low. I sell through to offset my exchanges and never have had a rep say a thing about it. I do not re-order between visits unless the patient requires a different size or color or if the frame is a current hot item. We are not a big account for anyone but we are loyal. I have not added any new reps in over six years and we have a great variety of frames. Last month when I told a rep that one of her lines was just not getting it done and we would not be ordering any more of them she took the whole lot of them back. I was willing to sell them on clearance so I thought that was very nice of her.

[RustyS]

I order Ray Bans piece by piece because we only sell a certain style to our many pilots that come to us. Maui Jim we no longer stock becasue the boss took offense to the fact that they were also in Costco. When we did have them I had no issues with discounting them as needed per sale but did not advertise discounts. I only deal with nine reps and that is plenty. The low end stuff is just ordered through the catalog when we run low. I sell through to offset my exchanges and never have had a rep say a thing about it. I do not re-order between visits unless the patient requires a different size or color or if the frame is a current hot item. We are not a big account for anyone but we are loyal. I have not added any new reps in over six years and we have a great variety of frames. Last month when I told a rep that one of her lines was just not getting it done and we would not be ordering any more of them she took the whole lot of them back. I was willing to sell them on clearance so I thought that was very nice of her.


You put my post in quotes so i imagine you want a response. If i were to respond to your post without knowing your exact business circumstances is pure speculation. I was also going to avoid brand names and stick to lines with an enforced MSRP. The script i wrote before was an attempt to show some of the absurdities going on in the business which I could write a novel and for the sake of brevity i decided a scenario would be a better suited.

If your ordering Ray Ban piece by piece upon pt demand you are hardly a supporter of the product and just acting in a knee jerk response to an individuals needs to cover your butt. If your selling 10 pr a month this way you should have at least 24 pieces in stock at all times its smart business based on a 5 time inventory turn. Discounting special ordered sunglasses with the standard sunglass markup is insanity to me. 20% off MSRP shipped to me. I would tell them to go somewhere else. There are exceptions especially if the customer just bought 2 pair RX specs then i would consider this service as opposed to the random guy with a style number. reasons being COG almost 70%. If you have to adjust it 2 times and put on new nosepads in a year you lost money on the sale. In my exp the customer running around to optical shops all day for the best discount is not the client you want after spending money they have a sense of entitlement in regards to service and will be a squeaky wheel whenever they need something up to 2 years later.

I put the number 10-15 lines not reps. 10 lines for avg store 15 for a store doing 7 figures not including Doc services (if there is one) and low end not in equation. If you saw nothing wrong with the script i wrote and you havent seen added new reps in 6 years then you have been assimilated already and are being spoon fed by the big companies. This is not a dis but a fact that permeates the business. It is truly saddening and its almost a hostile takeover leaving independents with a franchisee position.

[cocoisland58]

You put my post in quotes so i imagine you want a response. If i were to respond to your post without knowing your exact business circumstances is pure speculation. I was also going to avoid brand names and stick to lines with an enforced MSRP. The script i wrote before was an attempt to show some of the absurdities going on in the business which I could write a novel and for the sake of brevity i decided a scenario would be a better suited.

If your ordering Ray Ban piece by piece upon pt demand you are hardly a supporter of the product and just acting in a knee jerk response to an individuals needs to cover your butt. If your selling 10 pr a month this way you should have at least 24 pieces in stock at all times its smart business based on a 5 time inventory turn. Discounting special ordered sunglasses with the standard sunglass markup is insanity to me. 20% off MSRP shipped to me. I would tell them to go somewhere else. There are exceptions especially if the customer just bought 2 pair RX specs then i would consider this service as opposed to the random guy with a style number. reasons being COG almost 70%. If you have to adjust it 2 times and put on new nosepads in a year you lost money on the sale. In my exp the customer running around to optical shops all day for the best discount is not the client you want after spending money they have a sense of entitlement in regards to service and will be a squeaky wheel whenever they need something up to 2 years later.

I put the number 10-15 lines not reps. 10 lines for avg store 15 for a store doing 7 figures not including Doc services (if there is one) and low end not in equation. If you saw nothing wrong with the script i wrote and you havent seen added new reps in 6 years then you have been assimilated already and are being spoon fed by the big companies. This is not a dis but a fact that permeates the business. It is truly saddening and its almost a hostile takeover leaving independents with a franchisee position.


You are right we do order Ray Ban only when requested by the bosses pilot buddies. I would love to have the line in but boss does not like to carry anything that Costco has been able to get.

I have been assimilted all ready? I really don't understand what you mean and if you have any suggestions so that we don't have to completely redo our store please tell. This is most likely the last optical posistion I will hold before I retire after over 30 years. I would like to leave this little privately owned and rather backwardly thinking business in better shape than I found it ten years ago. I inherited much of the way things are done and they are not too keen on change though it has improved. I am the buyer, I have known my reps for many years. What would you suggest? We are in a Detroit suburb north.

[RustyS]

I am so happy you responded this way. I may write in absolutes but would also love an exchange if ideas in this subject as to insulate the and solidify the independent in the market place. I also learn by being told I am wrong. Now that pensions and good retirement plans for the average worker seem to be a thing of the past in America. Your desire for making your place a better workplace is commendable and pride in position seems to be lacking now days (unfortunately)

Just to respond to your bosses Ray Ban deal unless he is flying vintage warbirds and wears Ray Bans for nostalgia he is his own worst enemy. He is an Eye doctor who wears and swears by ray bans and wont sell em because Costco does so it would seem Costco is targeting his shopping habits and meeting market demand and he is refusing to. He is wearing glasses that the government contracted for military by having bids and the absolute cheapest won. "Congrats on your new Ray Bans" There are many more modern sunglass lenses which would fit the bill just as well if not way better. If there is not a line like that put in Raybans or kiss your sun sales bye bye to Costco why not its what the doctor wears. I have had this talk with so many Doctors some get it some dont he is actually doing his pts a disservice by not letting them know there are better options. Meeting the patients needs is not selling. If the Doctor and the Opticians wear it; me as a non professional thats what I would wear. I would not let an new optician
to my store work the floor and wear a type of eyewear i did not stock. Same goes for the Doc if your gonna sell high end eyewear you better wear it or your shop would have no validity when selling upper end goods.

Now in regards to inventory. It would be reckless, stupid, and naive if i told you what to carry and sell. I would be very wary of anyone wanting to do an inventory upheaval in my store much less someone on the internet. Having a good eye for frames and knowing what is out there is key. Sharpshoot instead of shotgun your inventory. Know what your selling, Educate your patient and yourself.

Go to the shows know whats out there. Call in reps to show you products BE HONEST on the phone call tell them you just want to see whats out there and dont want to take too much of their time but you hear they have nice stuff and you think it would be a mistake if you didnt at least see it. If you work on a reps schedule they really appreciate it. Treat unknown lines like dating be cordial have fun and dont get too serious on the first date. Stay in your league if your average frame price is 150 then look for a line at slightly above that. Dont call in the Chrome Hearts rep with 850.00 sunglasses and a big minimum.

Before you do any of that first you need to examine the pt. Try an experiment. As a guidepost try to sell through your inventory 4-5 times a year as a rule. I would imagine 4 of your lines (not reps) tend to account for almost 50% of your frame sales. Take two of these companies and figure out how many of these frames you sold last year divide by 4 (5 is best but ...) and thats how many pieces you keep in AT ALL TIMES.
Reorder and even order dups if a frame is hot. These lines will probably see a 10-20% increase in sales. Try to get your invent in order to the point where if you only saw a rep to show new styles and do returns you would be just fine.

Big companies dont want you to think about inventory control. they use the just order we will take it back philosophy. Which enforces laziness, lowers quality, and keeps you addicted. Its tough but get your inventory in control and it will give you freedom and confidence to try something new.

[cocoisland58]

Thanks Rusty. Actually the boss does fly vintage planes, is ex-military and that is exactly why he wears and sells the RB goggle.

We do have a few lines of "high-end" eyewear at my insistance, do wear them on the floor and do sell what we wear. I have all the dispensors wear great frames even if they don't have an Rx. I would not bring in Chrome Hearts or the like because I know there is not a market for them in this store. I do think we have our market pretty well cornered and stock accordingly. Since we often get compliments and referrals on our frame selection I guess we must be doing something right.

I am going to do some research on our inventory in the next week or so. This is something we have needed to do for a while but have not had time plus we still do much of our tracking by hand not database.

Thanks for the tips.

[Johns]

pardon poetic license but this is the web


FADE IN

INT day "Independent optical shop"

Jane a rep from a major manufacturer sits with an optician showing her frames while 3 other reps from same company sit nearby waiting for their appt.

JANE Isnt this great. Ill just send these they are XXXX so they will sell for sure. You know this job is not much different from my last one selling industrial cleansers

OPTICIAN, Oh for sure. you guys getting ready for show.

Jane Uggh I hate the shows. I know you guys never go. I wouldnt either how many different nose pads are there anyway haha, but like always you will be my first appt when i get back to make sure you get the newest first.

OPTICIAN Oh yeah thanks i really appreciate that. You make my life so easy.

JANE OK i wanna show you my new collection XXXX now i know it looks just like my other line XXXX but this little piece of sprayed on tortoise effect will appeal to the 18-22 year olds and say im bold and provocative.

OPTICIAN Oh yeah XXXX clothing everyone is wearing it.

JANE Thats why we gave him 1,000,000$ cash and 15 bucks a frame.

Optician UHmm I am not supposed to put in any more lines

JANE dont worry I will exchange it with any other of our 63 lines if it wont sell and they look the same anyway.

Opician your right just send it. thank you so much

JANE No prob your my best account


Chip Anderson walks in with his messiah 001 collection (previous post) to meet optician.

CHIP Hi i am a frame designer and i wanted to come in say hi.

OPTICIAN do you have an appointment

CHIP well... uhh i just wanted to introduce myself and tell you what im doing its revolutionary. are you going to the show i will be in the suites because i cannot spend the 50k to get a booth

OPTICIAN You reps are so rude coming in here without an appt. Im busy and have a very busy office. If i want your collection ill call. We have plenty right now and are not putting in new lines. I dont go to the shows they come to me and if i do i never go to suites. Im too busy when im there getting CE's sponsored by XXXX collection to sell more and I get a hawaiian shirt for attending.

Wow! That was scary!! You just gave me a flashback to the days when I saw reps!!

Sheez that was right on!:shiner: