I'm driving less.....how about you??

[hcjilson]

I've noticed gas prices dropping suddenly. I wonder why? Have China and India stopped being a factor in the price of gas? I think not! I have found myself driving less. Making every trip count and no more joy riding. I think others are doing the same, and I think the oil companies are feeling the pinch.

I have heard, but not seen, that US News and World Report in today's issue, has reported essentially the same thing.Bravo for us I say! It also led me to wonder how my fellow Optiboarders we feeling about driving this summer.Are you driving less as well?

PS Pay no attention to Chip. He still has a bumper sticker from the 70's which say's
DRIVE 80 AND FREEZE A YANKEE! :bbg:

[chip anderson]

Seriously remember there is no gas shortage. Just speculation that raises the price on such things as rumors of : war, hurricaines, illness of anyone in the middle east, the health of dockworkers and the like.
There is plenty of oil, just too many people manipulating the price.
As to Yankees driving less, if you folks had the same attitude during the 1850's and 60's and stayed home everything would have been fine.


Chip

[rbaker]

Petroleum is a commodity whose price is effected by many different factors, just one of which is domestic gasoline consumption. All things considered, any recent reduction in the domestic consumption of gasoline is an insignificant factor in the price you pay at the pump. You will also find that the overall consumption of petroleum products in the USA is up, due primarily to the expanding economy.

Instead of being diverted by the red herring of an “energy crisis” let’s all work on a plan that will really have an impact on our wallets, the reduction in the personal and corporate tax burden.

Personally, I have probably used at least 50% more auto gasoline and 200% more avgas this year than last. Retirement means more leisure time and more leisure time means more travel.

How sweet it is.


x

[Ory]

I live in a small town and I take the bus to work. You have no idea how many people have said to me "you're a doctor and you ride the bus!?!?!?!"

The bus service isn't great but it gets me to and from the house in 25 minutes, compared to 10 to drive. I get to sit back, relax, and read a book.

If more people had a reasonable view on public transit it would become a much more viable alternative.

[RGC_man]

I don't drive, and never have done. Just make sure my home is near a good rail line and plenty of buses. Although Mrs RGC_man is making noises about me taking driving lessons for when the kids arrive, probably so she can have a drink once in a while when we go out. During the last major petrol shortages when people were panic-buying due to hysterical rumours, it was amusing to see people who had no understanding that you cannot pay your bus fare with a £20 note at 7 in the morning.

[Cindy K]

My commute is approx. 200kms a day. Thus, I fill up my tank in my PT Cruiser every three days thereabouts. Considering what my fuel costs are just getting back and forth to work, yes, we are certainly driving less since the price of gas has gone through the roof. Fortunately, the recreation opportunities hubby and I enjoy (fishing and camping) is found relatively close by, and we discovered the great spots whilst going for joyrides when the price of gas was much much lower!

I recall, four years ago when I moved here, and the price of gas was 63 cents/litre, I complained bitterly about the cost. Little did I know...

[C-10]

I like to take my bike to work in the summer have been doing it for years it takes 20 mins. if I can I will walk to where I am going. Take the car mostly out on Sunday will go out a park and go for a walk so my life style has not change. I Fill up my Altima about every Three wks.

[For-Life]

I was watching an Enron documentary where it went over what the company did in California during de-regulation. The company would get the power plants to shut down for a few hours to cause panic and create the illusion of lack of supply so that they could raise prices.

Interesting that Kenneth Lay, one of the main men behind Enron, is one of George W. Bush's closet friends.

[hcjilson]

Interesting that Kenneth Lay, one of the main men behind Enron, is one of George W. Bush's closet friends.

Make that, ....was!

[For-Life]

Make that, ....was!

maybe, maybe not

[Bill West]

Make that, ....was!

ELVIS and KENNY in Vegas in high stakes poker game.:nerd:

[Judy Canty]

maybe, maybe not
:eek: You mean he's not dead? :eek:

[OpticLabRat]

Elections are coming ,
They are eliminating the gas price issue.
Coincidence?
Probably,
Maybe.

LETS SEE IF THEY GO UP A QUARTER AFTER ELECTIONS

[Judy Canty]

Elections are coming ,
They are eliminating the gas price issue.
Coincidence?
Probably,
Maybe.

LETS SEE IF THEY GO UP A QUARTER AFTER ELECTIONS


Ya think?!

[hotsauce]

I've noticed gas prices dropping suddenly. I wonder why? Have China and India stopped being a factor in the price of gas? I think not! I have found myself driving less. Making every trip count and no more joy riding. I think others are doing the same, and I think the oil companies are feeling the pinch.

I have heard, but not seen, that US News and World Report in today's issue, has reported essentially the same thing.Bravo for us I say! It also led me to wonder how my fellow Optiboarders we feeling about driving this summer.Are you driving less as well?

PS Pay no attention to Chip. He still has a bumper sticker from the 70's which say's
DRIVE 80 AND FREEZE A YANKEE! :bbg:

The chief reason gas prices have been steadily climbing is because demand has been, too. People are driving just as much as they ever have (at least until recently), and buying vast, ridiculously fuel-inefficient trucks. Oil companies see this, and raise the price to see if the market will bear it. Finally, demand is beginning to soften because people really are feeling the pinch, so the price is going to float down. As evil as the oil companies are, it chiefly is just supply and demand.

The other factor is that it's the end of summer. The more cynical among us would point out that with Labor Day weekend coming up, a "refinery fire" or other sort of disturbance in the fuel supply should have us paying another 40 cents per gallon by Saturday. Don't think they've used "swamp gas made us do it" excuse yet.

[hotsauce]

Oh, and the "ignore" feature? How sweet it is, if you get my drift.

[Judy Canty]

Around here, gas prices seem to go up on thursdays and stay up through the weekend. Then you see the signs for "xx cents off" on tuesdays, bringing everything back to the normal price for tuesday and wednesday.

Earlier this summer, we also had a spate of SUV's being torched for the insurance money. Couldn't afford to drive 'em, couldn't sell 'em either, I guess.

[Cindy K]

Around here, gas prices seem to go up on thursdays and stay up through the weekend. Then you see the signs for "xx cents off" on tuesdays, bringing everything back to the normal price for tuesday and wednesday.


Its worse than that here-- I always fill up on my lunch hour. Why? Because in the mornings and evenings, the gas stations jack up the prices by as much as 8 cents/litre higher than the mid day prices! Its insane.

[hcjilson]

so the price is going to float down. As evil as the oil companies are, it chiefly is just supply and demand.

.

If you really believe that, you must also believe that the pipeline is "fixed" in Alaska...(it's not!) If it were a question of supply and demand, where are the lines at the pump? I agree with Chip. There's plenty of gas around at 100% more than you were paying a couple of years ago. This so called "minor spike" will precipitate the recession we are bound to have due to the effect it's had on inflation. If you don't believe me check out the auto industry and the real estate section in your local paper.

[hotsauce]

Are you saying that the only way to gauge if there's high demand for gasoline is if there are long lines at the pump? Tens of billions of quarterly profits for one company aren't tipping you off?

It's simpler than that--people are buying more gas, so by raising the price incrementally, the oil cos. find the level the market is willing to bear, and, lucky for them, make out like absolute bandits. When demand drops (and supply increases), the price will sink down, as evidenced by what the price is doing now. Are they a cartel? Certainly. Are they colluding and price-fixing illegally? Very probably. A depressingly small number of companies have a near-monopoly on one of the most important parts of our economy, and they've been bending us over for decades. Only now that it's really a sting to the ol' pocketbook are people doing anything at all in a positive direction in regard to fuel economy.

Why is it such a terrible mess? Well, when was the last time federal CAFE standards were raised? Why are SUVs, which are used primarily as commuter cars by the vast majority of drivers, classified as "light trucks" under those same CAFE standards which are, last time I checked, about 60% of the requirement of cars? A great deal of the latest generation of SUVs are based on front-drive unit-body car, not a rear-drive ladder-frame truck, chassis, but they're still classified, with a wink and a nod, as "light trucks".

On a personal anecdotal note, I just talked to someone at work this morning who is ecstatic about her new car--she's going from 18 or 19 MPG to 34 on the highway. She was pretty pleased with the leather upholstery, too, but moreso about the mileage. People have realized over the past few years that a $50-100 fill-up every three or four days wasn't the smartest way to spend money, so they're buying more fuel-efficient cars, consolidating trips to the store, cutting out long drives when possible, maybe some are using public transportation, carpooling to work or telecommuting. The corresponding decrease in demand creates an equal increase in supply, so by lowering the price, they can re-stimulate demand and keep those 10-figure quarterly profits rolling in.

[Optical Enigma]

If you really believe that, you must also believe that the pipeline is "fixed" in Alaska...(it's not!) If it were a question of supply and demand, where are the lines at the pump? I agree with Chip. There's plenty of gas around at 100% more than you were paying a couple of years ago. This so called "minor spike" will precipitate the recession we are bound to have due to the effect it's had on inflation. If you don't believe me check out the auto industry and the real estate section in your local paper.


Wow, there are some crazy assumptions here. The real estate market will bust because of oil?!!! Higher interest rates and inflated prices have nothing to do with it?:confused:

As far as lines at the pump, if my high school econ class has anything to say about it, as prices increase demand decreases... for most products. So you are saying there would be lines if supply was truly short, despite high prices?

Inflation? A few percentage points inflation will cause a recession?

[hotsauce]

Wow, there are some crazy assumptions here. The real estate market will bust because of oil?!!! Higher interest rates and inflated prices have nothing to do with it?

As far as lines at the pump, if my high school econ class has anything to say about it, as prices increase demand decreases... for most products. So you are saying there would be lines if supply was truly short, despite high prices?

Inflation? A few percentage points inflation will cause a recession?

I had trouble making that leap of logic too. However, he's not far off the point. What will eventually cause a recession will be the combination of raising interest rates in relation to the predatory lending practices of the past few years, record-low interest rates several years back, and a whole lot of (not very smart, IMO) home buyers getting ARMs when interest rates were effectively at zero percent.

Combine the past few years' climb in gas prices with dramatic increases in people's monthly mortgages due to rising interest rates with last year's new bankruptcy law, where the bank can foreclose on you and still bill you for the loan. Factor in a $750 billion annual trade deficit, a few expensive and never-ending foreign engagements, a shooting war or two in the region that provides us with much of our gas, and saber-rattling for another by the clueless idiots running the country like it's an eighth-grade social studies project, and they're shooting for a D-minus.

Compound all of the above with, say, a natural disaster, threat of a terrorist attack or financial crisis precipitated by, say, dumping of T-Bills in expectation of the dollar's softening, or... well, take your pick of factors. I'm not saying that it's inevitable, but we could be on the edge of one hell of a mess.

[hcjilson]

Are you saying that the only way to gauge if there's high demand for gasoline is if there are long lines at the pump? Tens of billions of quarterly profits for one company aren't tipping you off?



When you over simplify and say this situation is purely supply and demand, I point out to you that there does not seem to be a shortage of supply. Perhaps you may recall the industry officials, and some, within this administration, telling us that rising prices were a problem of supply.Perhaps you recall the bruhaha over the lost drilling stations after Katrina, as well as the statement that China and India were requiring more oil. Then the flap over the broken pipeline in Alaska. It just doesn't add up in my book, but what do I know, I only minored in Economics.

[hotsauce]

It's certainly clear to me why economics was your minor. A decrease in supply can cause or be caused by an increase in demand. Likewise, an increase in demand can cause a decrease in supply. Or it could be caused by a decrease in supply. One doesn't always follow the other, though they are related. Can we agree on this?

In other words, you can be sold out of potato chips without having had a run on them--maybe you only had two bags to begin with, and one guy bought both. Does this mean the next twenty-six people will all want ten bags of potato chips, or that one guy wanted two bags? Or, going back to your example, would there have to have been a line of people wanting to buy potato chips to signify the demand?

Again: People, if not buying more gas, are failing to buy less. We can talk about Alaskan pipelines if you want to, but that's only a small part of the greater issue, which is that demand is still strong for gasoline. Drivers are unwilling (and perhaps unable) to drive less, and aren't going out of their way to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles, so they're buying as much or more than usual no matter what the price. When there actually is a shortage of supply coupled with the amount of demand we've already got, then you'll see fireworks.

[hcjilson]

d?

Drivers are unwilling (and perhaps unable) to drive less, and aren't going out of their way to buy more fuel-efficient vehicles, so they're buying as much or more than usual no matter what the price. When there actually is a shortage of supply coupled with the amount of demand we've already got, then you'll see fireworks.

Perhaps you are not reading the same Wall Street Journal as the rest of us.From what was recently reported, the SUV's are not exactly flying off the lots. While you research that, check into the health of the American automobile industry, I think you will find one or two problems related to the increased price of fuel.

[hotsauce]

My "problem", at least as you see it, is that I'm not reading the WSJ at all, but rather looking at the roads and parking lots around me, which are still, despite lagging new vehicle sales, choked with Family Trucksters. In fact, it's getting hard to tell the difference between a road and a parking lot these days partly because of the damned behemoths.

What Ford and GM are selling (or more properly, ain't selling) has little to do with who's buying gas today.

[hcjilson]

With all due respect

Difficult to take issue with parking lots and highways (all you can see around you!) to support a broad premise. I was taught to let the numbers tell the story. I'll stick to that.

[harry a saake]

myself i am lucky as i have to travel the whole state of north carolina and the company pays all my gas bills and then some, so i am driving more , but not feeling the pinch.
have none of you been aware of the agreement that OPEC basically forced on a lot of the oil producing nations. Use to be when there was a problem other countries stepped in and produced more, which kept everything the same, now these other countries have agreed not to do that any more, which lets the idiot speculators and oil companies say shortage when in reality there is no shortage

[rbaker]

Actually OPEC didn’t “force” it’s member nations to do anything. A cartel is a voluntary agreement between two or more parties with the purpose of controlling production in order to control prices. Many producers of goods and services form cartels and many governments form cartels (under other names) to regulate markets.

If OPEC lowers production quotas it can, indeed, create an artificial shortage which will raise prices if demand remains the same or greater. This action effects the futures market which by the way is not the price that refineries and processors pay for crude. That is to say, when you see the “price of oil” at $70.00 a barrel Exxon may only be paying $42.00.

You might also want to know that the higher price that you are paying at the pump is actually helping to fund your pension plan and will ultimately pay for your retirement.

[hcjilson]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]You might also want to know that the higher price that you are paying at the pump is actually helping to fund your pension plan and will ultimately pay for your retirement.

We should be sending the Oil companies thank you notes???:D :D

[rbaker]

Right on Harry, If you hold any mutual funds you can bet that you own quite a large share of energy stocks and if you have a growth or aggressive growth allocation you own a ton of energy stocks. Few sectors of the market have the long term stability and growth that we find in energy. Lets face it, whether we love or hate “big oil” it is what fuels (hey, that’s a good pun) our growing economy. Now, if we can only reduce government spending and lower taxes. You know, it wouldn’t take much of a tax cut to balance off the higher pump prices. Everyone is demanding that the oil companies reduce their prices and no one demands the same of the state and federal government. Cripes, here in Massachusetts we pay $0.21 a gallon in State tax and $0.18 in Federal taxes

[hotsauce]

Let me get this straight--by being gouged at the pump today, I'm giving energy companies interest-free loans to invest money that I don't have, so that I'll be paid greater dividends on investments I'll never be able to afford to make. And then, tax cuts while we're running half-trillion-dollar annual deficits will pad the oil companies' profit margins so my nonexistent portfolio will bulge with imaginary dollars.

Look, I really don't know how to tell you this, but that could very well be the stupidest thing I've ever read.

[For-Life]

Dick, I have a real problem with that theory, because it is not like the oil companies are taking in loses. If you are a company like GM, then that makes sense. Plus, with a lower tax base it may keep those jobs in the US (even though the funny thing is one reason why GM is taking in the loses, and losing the employees is due to health care costs).

So now we have an oil company that is taking very good profits, so if you think the government lowered the taxes on them they would drop the prices? No. In reality what should happen is competition should step in and the competitors would have them drop their prices. But as we all know, that does not happen.

As for recommending oil companies as part of the mutual fund, you are absolutely right there. Oil companies and major banks are two of the safest investments out there (well at least Canadian major banks). Two (Canadian Banks) well protected businesses too.

[rbaker]

For-Life: I was refering to the State and Federal taxes that I have to pay at the pump. The less money that I have to pay out in taxes - the more money I have to spend on eyewear, booze and fine cigars. I can also increase my ownership in Exxon.

hotsauce: You are not being gouged at the pump. You are paying the same price that we are all paying. You had better get started on a portfolio now, perhaps just $10.00 a week. You really don't want to spend you "Golden Years" living in public housing, eating off of food stamps and complaining about how you are being gouged.

[Judy Canty]

hotsauce: You are not being gouged at the pump. You are paying the same price that we are all paying.

Weeeeellll... maybe. We spent the long weekend working on our house in Va. Beach, driving back to Mom's in Portsmouth for dinner.

Price of regular at the Beach $2.30 per gallon
Price of regular in Norfolk $2.54 per gallon
Price of regular in P-Town $2.64 per gallon

What's up with that?

[For-Life]

For-Life: I was refering to the State and Federal taxes that I have to pay at the pump. The less money that I have to pay out in taxes - the more money I have to spend on eyewear, booze and fine cigars. I can also increase my ownership in Exxon.

hotsauce: You are not being gouged at the pump. You are paying the same price that we are all paying. You had better get started on a portfolio now, perhaps just $10.00 a week. You really don't want to spend you "Golden Years" living in public housing, eating off of food stamps and complaining about how you are being gouged.


Well the tax at the pump is a fixed range, not percentage (at least that is what it is in Canada). Even if you take it away it will still not solve the problem.

[rinselberg]

But dawning day new comfort (http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8336/titusposterii6.jpg) hath inspired ...

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6233/060905oilmexicohmed5ph2ry1.jpg
Chevron estimated the 300-square-mile region where its test well sits could hold between 3 billion and 15 billion barrels of oil and natural gas liquids: The U.S. consumes roughly 5.7 billion barrels of crude-oil in a year.

Updated: 7:12 a.m. PT Sept 6, 2006
WASHINGTON - A trio of oil companies led by Chevron Corp. has tapped a petroleum pool deep beneath the Gulf of Mexico that could boost the nation’s reserves by more than 50 percent. A test well indicates it could be the biggest new domestic oil discovery since Alaska’s Prudhoe Bay a generation ago. But the vast oil deposit roughly four miles beneath the ocean floor won’t significantly reduce the country’s dependence on foreign oil and it won’t help lower prices at the pump anytime soon ...

For the complete MSNBC report: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14678206/

Are you reading more posts and enjoying it less? Make RadioFreeRinsel (http://www.optiboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=80952&postcount=8) your next Internet port of call ...

[Grubendol]

I've noticed gas prices dropping suddenly. I wonder why? Have China and India stopped being a factor in the price of gas? I think not! I have found myself driving less. Making every trip count and no more joy riding. I think others are doing the same, and I think the oil companies are feeling the pinch.

I have heard, but not seen, that US News and World Report in today's issue, has reported essentially the same thing.Bravo for us I say! It also led me to wonder how my fellow Optiboarders we feeling about driving this summer.Are you driving less as well?

PS Pay no attention to Chip. He still has a bumper sticker from the 70's which say's
DRIVE 80 AND FREEZE A YANKEE! :bbg:

Well, a study was done recently showing that Bush's approval rating had a reciprocal relationship with gas prices. His numbers are down and a big mid-term election is right around the corner, so gas prices go down.