SILLUETTE 3 PIECE MOUNTINGS

[LENNY]

Does Anybody Knows The Lab that will do Silhouettes Titanium 3 Piece Mountings And Possibly Supply The Frames To Cut The Turn Around Time?
What Are They Charging
It Is A Payne In The ??? Job

[karen]

I happen to work for a lab that does a fabulous job on those 3 piece-
we are even recommended by Silhouette- but we are in California. We don't provide the frames and are far away enough that the turn time might be an issue-can do overnite each way though. if you want more info email me sierrakaren@linkline.com and I'll give you more info!

[BobV]

Lenny, what we did was send demo lenses from the frames to our lab in Kansas City along with a supply of plastic mounting pieces.
Any good lab will figure the mounting aspect and turn around time should be no more than 2 days. Just make sure you have enough chassis.

Also, think about custom shapes. We are doing that. Just send a tracing of the shape and the labs should be able to figure those out too.

Bob V.

[Jim G]

Hate crass commercialism but don't know of any other way to respond to this. We were the initial lab to work with Silhouette and, yes it is a ****** to mount. We do stock the frames and have considerable experience in mounting. All that said, we are expensive--but you get what you pay for; our quality and service is great. If you are interested in exploring this further, please call 800/873-9256 and ask for Laurie (x6136).

[Texas Ranger]

Lenny, we do all of our finish work in house, except for glass. The silhouettes are awesome, clients love them, and pay dearly! We keep a couple dozen chassis in inventory,mostly the hingeless model. They are really quite simple to mount, if you follow their instructions, but if you find someone else to do them, don't quibble over the time or price. Al.

[okoart]

Hi-Lenny

If you are ever looking for a company that specializes in making clip-ons for the Silhouettes or any other drill mount call OKO-Custom Clips, Inc. 877-OKO-CLIP

All metal colors matched perfectly.

Ask your Silhouette representative, they know all about us.



Visit our website for more info: www.opticalstore.com (http://www.opticalstore.com/)

[Framebender]

and haven't really had a problem. I know that Silhouette will drop ship to most labs. For awhile we tried having the labs order them, but if the 19 bridge or the 140 temples were on backorder. We didn't know about it for 2 or 3 days. Labs won't say OK give me the 21 bridge and the 150 temples and we'll trim them.

So you may want to call Silhouette and have them drop ship. The easiest way we found to do it was to order lenses only and mount them in house. Just be sure to give them the right chassis number. Silhouette has confused the issue a little bit by bringing out chassis that require 2 different drill hole sizes.

I hope you're having fun and making money!!

[beertv]

Southeastern Optical is a great lab for this kind of work. Call them at 800-456-0088.

We sell a ton of Silhouettes, we make all of them in house using a Briot Axcell with the drill built in. Great setup and the software will allow you to save and or modify the shapes so you can get a custom fit for patients that need it. We are very happy with the unit and I have been using it for some 3 years now. JA Optronics in Maryland (800-888-0090) gives same day support. You can really turn out better quality and faster turn around times making them in house. Oh and you save a ton in lab fees!!

As for the frames, we get them in just a few days so it has never been an issue. We always have the frame before we have the lenses. If you are not going to make them in house, then the best thing you can do is to buy some inventory and send them in to the lab then reorder that frame to keep your inventory up. We make them in house and still keep a bunch of frames in stock and some clips as well.

Don

[For-Life]

You guys do notice that we have bumped a 6 year old thread???

[mike.elmes]

My new Kappa CTD edger and I can do these in 15 minutes, then it takes me another 5 minutess to install plugs.The edger edges and drills and feathers and edgepolishes them all in one cycle. Heck send them to me, it would be a pleasure to do them. Only problem is I'm in Edmonton, alberta Canada.I love this new edger:cheers:

[Jacqui]

I was wondering when someone would notice

[Framebender]

No, actually I didn't. You only have to hit me over the head several times!!;)

[LENNY]

Thanks!
I ordered the new Essilor edger couple of days ago!
Yep this is the old thread!
I dont need to order frames anymore!
I stock them in all colors!:D

[mike.elmes]

Your going to worship the bench it sit on!! Excellent choice!!:cheers:

If you have any questions regarding this edger ask away.
mike

[LENNY]

Ok!

Is there a directory of different shapes and drill positions?
How about notches and grooves?

[For-Life]

Thanks!
I ordered the new Essilor edger couple of days ago!
Yep this is the old thread!
I dont need to order frames anymore!
I stock them in all colors!:D

I do have to say that your grammar has improved

[mike.elmes]

Hi Lenny,


I got the barcode reader with mine. The tracer does have a RS232C cable port meaning that shapes and drill hole locations should be uploadable. For the many I have done so far I either used the built in digital camera, or used the manufacturers drill hole locations and manually entered them.It is pretty fast, maybe 5 minutes to manually enter the drill hole data. Once it's entered it can be permanently saved if desired. It also does notches as well....no problems what so ever.
regards,
mike

[Ed_Optician]

When they first hit the market in 2000/2001 I learned to do them quickly Edging/polishing the lenses was not a problem on any edger. I drilled the holes with the silhouette supplied guide and drillbits using a Dremel Mighty Mite hand held. Never neaded reamersbroaches because the plugs doidnt fit. I used a sharp Xacto knife to cut the plugs flush

Ed

[LENNY]

I am still waiting for the installation of my new Kappa.
I have 2 gorgeoes huge boxes in the front of my store for a week now (they do not fit any place). I found the website with all the drill locations for Silhoette shapes.
Its www.silhouettelab.net (http://www.silhouettelab.net).
Do you people know if other manufacturers of 3pm have something like that?

[gola]

Is it really so easy to make a drill mount eyeglass with this edgers that has been mentioned in this post? (Kappa, etc)
Are those frame you are used to work with so symetrical and free of defects that you can drill the hole without adjusting the hole position on each frame?

I am doing this questions because we do it manually and it takes a lot of time to experinced workers they always say that each frame of the same model may be different and the hole needs to be drill according to that particular frame, the lens base curve, the edge thicness, etc. I could consider investing in one of this equipments if it makes doing a dill mount eyeglass so easy.
I do not trust salemans. You are used to do this kind of jobs and most know if it really works or not. That is why your opinion and comments are so valuable for me.

[High_Abbe]

Silhouette Minimal Art drill mounts are especially easy to drill and assemble! They take me about 5 minutes to mark and drill by hand. Other types of drill mounts can be more challenging ( notched mountings especially), but there is a system and it does work! If you have people who do this kind of work then forget buying expensive equipment, instead invest in your employee's and give them a raise!:cheers:

[eromitlab]

I'd like to hear how that CTD system is working out for you, Lenny... I'm going to start dropping hints about having our three piece mounts done in-house (except for 2.5 and Swissflex) to save more money and time, not to mention we've been having some issues with Santinelli tech support lately, much more so than I ever had with Gerber's service.

[LENNY]

Got it installed!

nice!

[BIG22MAC]

I'd like to hear how that CTD system is working out for you, Lenny... I'm going to start dropping hints about having our three piece mounts done in-house (except for 2.5 and Swissflex) to save more money and time, not to mention we've been having some issues with Santinelli tech support lately, much more so than I ever had with Gerber's service.

What type of problems have you been having with Tech support? Have you contacted the Director Matt Mckenna with your concerns? m.mckenna@santinelli.com

[beertv]

I have made many many three piece mounts using a lot of different equipment. I should mention I am the kind of optician that refuses to let any pair of glasses go out of our finishing lab that is not perfect in every way. I can tell you that making a no-line, having the hole positions perfect to keep axis spot on, and having the hardware mounted to such perfection that even picky patients will not find fault is not as easy as some here may suggest. I have never seen a 3 piece mount that looked nearly as good when made with a hand held dremel than say using a high end edger with a drill, or edger and cad drill. The fact is for speed and consistant quality I think it requires higher end equipment. Now I know that there are Opticians out there that will debate that point with me. I do know some Opticians that can do a really nice job with a hand held dremel, but they are not slapping them together in ten minutes, and they have many years of experience making them. Even giving them that credit, I can still say I have not yet seen a 3 piece mount that looked as perfectly made as what can be done off a high end edger/drill setup can do. If you sell higher end frames and lenses, you should deliver on the quality. The one beef I have had with all the edgers I looked at was hole location, and hole diameter accuracy. If you want a 1.40 mm hole you don't want a 1.49 hole, and if it is set to be 4.5 mm in and the next hole at 1.50 they need to be on axis and exact every single time. This where some of the equipment just does not meet the standard. If the holes are too big then the bushings are a little loose and the job feels sloppy in the hand. Too tight and you have to ream the hole out. If you have a problem with the edger or drill how long does it take to get it fixed and what will that cost. How easy is it to calibrate and or change out the drill bit. Does the software used in blocking or drilling allow for changing the shapes or hole locations, and can you save them easily. To all of these questions I can tell you that the Briot Axcell with the drill feature works amazingly well. I can take any Silhouette shape and make it deeper for a no-line or wider for a wider face while locking any or all other size dimensions. You can take a shape and lock all parts of the shape and pull the B down changing ONLY the area below the geometric center. This lets you bring a lens closer to the cheeks if they are looking under the lens or need more room for the seg. All shapes and hole locations are saved and easy to modify on the fly.

Hope this helps

Don Mildrum

[LENNY]

You are in for a surprise with new Kappa!

[gola]

I have made many many three piece mounts using a lot of different equipment. I should mention I am the kind of optician that refuses to let any pair of glasses go out of our finishing lab that is not perfect in every way.
Beertv, you know the job and are proud of doing it correct. Your opinion is very valuable. I agree with you in all what you say in your post. These machines are extremely accurate and do exactly what you program them to do and salesman explote this advantages.

Let suppose you have one of this equipments and it can be connected to a database where you store all the informantion about the shape (trace) position of holes, etc. of a particular job or frame. Perfect.

But, the real problem is not how to do the holes but where to do them.

If the frames manufacturer you mostly work with provides the information to fill the data in the database, this is a piece of cake. I would recomment you to buy one of this equipments.

But if you work with many different model of different quality from many manufactures all over the world, chances are that most of the time you have to figure out the data yourself because not many manufactures have it available.

Here comes our real problem. The source for this data is a "Demolens". A piece of cheap plastic that is made with the purpose of demostrate how does the frame with lenses look like. That is all. No precision, no consistensy, etc.

If this is the case (and is mine), you will spend a lot of time figuring which is the exact position of the holes. Probably you would need to run a trial lens first to make sure the data you collected is corrects and then do the expensive lens.

For instance, most demolens has the hole larger that what is needed because this way is easy to compensate any displacement of the holes or bridge defect since it let you enought play to align the demolenses and the tight the nuts very hard. The lens is aligned but the screw is not in the center of the hole. If you copy this holes position to the lens you are in trouble.

Also it is important the experience of the worker.

Beertv, Has you developed a method to collect the data from a demolens? Would you mind sharing it?
I read every post about three piece mounts, has learned alot but stil this type of frames are my main headache.

Once a salesman sayd to me. With my machine you can hire a guy that use to work for McDonald making hamberger and in a few days he will be doing the job. !!!! This is what a call a optimistic person !!!!!

But this wise person said
These machines make experienced techs better. Less experienced techs may be able to do a job but not necessary well.

[mike.elmes]

The Kappa ctd has the built in digital camera so you can put the projected holes directly over the cull lenses and see them in real time superimposed on the demo lens....it works very nicely.No more measuring.

This machine is very expensive, but worth every penny if you do a lot of drilling.

Beertv, you know the job and are proud of doing it correct. Your opinion is very valuable. I agree with you in all what you say in your post. These machines are extremely accurate and do exactly what you program them to do and salesman explote this advantages.

Let suppose you have one of this equipments and it can be connected to a database where you store all the informantion about the shape (trace) position of holes, etc. of a particular job or frame. Perfect.

But, the real problem is not how to do the holes but where to do them.

If the frames manufacturer you mostly work with provides the information to fill the data in the database, this is a piece of cake. I would recomment you to buy one of this equipments.

But if you work with many different model of different quality from many manufactures all over the world, chances are that most of the time you have to figure out the data yourself because not many manufactures have it available.

Here comes our real problem. The source for this data is a "Demolens". A piece of cheap plastic that is made with the purpose of demostrate how does the frame with lenses look like. That is all. No precision, no consistensy, etc.

If this is the case (and is mine), you will spend a lot of time figuring which is the exact position of the holes. Probably you would need to run a trial lens first to make sure the data you collected is corrects and then do the expensive lens.

For instance, most demolens has the hole larger that what is needed because this way is easy to compensate any displacement of the holes or bridge defect since it let you enought play to align the demolenses and the tight the nuts very hard. The lens is aligned but the screw is not in the center of the hole. If you copy this holes position to the lens you are in trouble.

Also it is important the experience of the worker.

Beertv, Has you developed a method to collect the data from a demolens? Would you mind sharing it?
I read every post about three piece mounts, has learned alot but stil this type of frames are my main headache.

Once a salesman sayd to me. With my machine you can hire a guy that use to work for McDonald making hamberger and in a few days he will be doing the job. !!!! This is what a call a optimistic person !!!!!

But this wise person said

[rsandr]

Is it really so easy to make a drill mount eyeglass with this edgers that has been mentioned in this post? (Kappa, etc)
Are those frame you are used to work with so symetrical and free of defects that you can drill the hole without adjusting the hole position on each frame?

I am doing this questions because we do it manually and it takes a lot of time to experinced workers they always say that each frame of the same model may be different and the hole needs to be drill according to that particular frame, the lens base curve, the edge thicness, etc. I could consider investing in one of this equipments if it makes doing a dill mount eyeglass so easy.
I do not trust salemans. You are used to do this kind of jobs and most know if it really works or not. That is why your opinion and comments are so valuable for me.

IME the Sillouettes and most of the copies have hole diameter 1.4mm and a separation of 3mm.
The weco 450 we use to glaze them makes them so easy they are a joy to glaze I would happily do them all day.
I could never get them perfectly straight drilling by hand, and if you make the holes slightly too big forget it.

Some of the cheaper models need to have the bushes replaced as they are too stiff.

[beertv]

I think many of you have had some very good points, and I think we are all on the same page as far as wanting to provide the best quality to our patients that we can. It is after all what will make them want to come back to us. Or at least we hope so, but that is another topic. :D

A lot of the new systems like the Kappa and the Briot Accel have a digital camera built in, this is the best way I think to capture the hole locations of a demo lens. I take a frame and make sure the demo lens is as well aligned in the frame as possible. Then I but it in my lensometer and make my 3 dots, then I unmount my demo lens and put it into my Accel blocker, and take a picture of it. I then get the shape and it will find my 3 dots and layout the axis. I can tweak this if I need to. Then it asks me for the bridge size, and then displays the job on the screen. Now as for hole locations, it will automatically locate the holes for me when the photo is taken. I don't normally leave it at this, I will figure what size hole I need, (bushings=1.4 or 2.0 in most cases, and or screw size I will mic with a caliper and then input that size) then I look at the hole location screen and see if the hole locations are even to the edge of the lens and on the right elevation. This is more of a small tweak really. If this is a frame I may run again I will save the job and it will be there next time I need it. If I need another size for the same job I can still pull this job and change the size and keep the holes in the same relative position. Input the patient data and I am good to run the job.

I will say no one system is perfect and I think they all have the good and bad points to each. However, I think if you go with any of the higher end units you are really going to make your life a lot simpler, and the quality is really amazing.The end result is less work on your part and the patient gets a great pair of glasses.

[QDO1]

A lot of the new systems like the Kappa and the Briot Accel have a digital camera built in, this is the best way I think to capture the hole locations of a demo lensexcelent idea, but that only makes the finished job as well set up as the display lenses. With a Silhouette, thas going to be pretty good, but with some other brands of thats going to be pretty dire

[gola]

beertv: Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I agree with QDO1 when he say
but that only makes the finished job as well set up as the display lenses.
I deal with many different frames (Manufactures and models) and a few of them are of high quality as the Sillouete so lets talk about frame with a cetain amount of defects. The ones that most people do not detect and do have to be taken in consideration when drilling the hole.

I take a frame and make sure the demo lens is as well aligned in the frame as possible. Then I but it in my lensometer and make my 3 dots,

I am going to quote myself in what is one of the problems i have to deal with.
For instance, most demolens has the hole larger that what is needed because this way is easy to compensate any displacement of the holes or bridge defect since it let you enought play to align the demolenses and the tight the nuts very hard. The lens is aligned but the screw is not in the center of the hole. If you copy this holes position to the lens you are in trouble.

¿How can we be sure that the screw is in de center of the quite large hole in the demolens? The digital camera method assumes that it is in the center of the demolens hole. Maybe using a conic metalic space between the demolens and the nut to force the scew to center in the hole.

But now the demolens is not aligned. Do you adjust the frame? i mean bend it if needed? or compesate it in the hole position.

[beertv]

I don't think you would like my answer but here it goes.

I guess my first reaction is; can you get a pattern? Can you not get the hole locations from your frame rep or manufacturer? To be honest, if I had the problem that you are talking about and could not get the info from the company or rep, I would not sell the frame. I sell all kinds of frames, some cheap some very expensive. But I can tell you I would not sell any frame that I had problems like you are describing. If you have to figure out where the center of the hole is, due to the hole being so big, and you can't get help from the company, then just do the best you can until you sell them all off and don't buy any more of them. I mean you can find cheap frames that are really made well, and there are some expensive frames that I will not sell due to the some problem in mounting lenses in them. If I don't like the way a frame is made in some way, meaning hard to mount or adjust or lends its self to breaking, I do not sell them. There are just too many really nice frames on the market that have great shapes, colors and styles that are great to work with. One example, I will not sell any frame that has a single screw mount where the edge of the frame has to bind the lens to keep it from moving, these just suck. They eventually do move and get loose and they break. I will not sell them. I find other frames to sell instead. I had 4 lines of frames that were like Silhouettes, and all at different price points, and after 2 years we took all of them out except the Silhouettes. People just would not buy the other frames after trying on the Silhouettes. I realize it may be my area, my market, but this was the case. We sell 7 to 10 Silhouettes a week, and every single one of them will be with a high end AR.

If your working some place that just sends you a box of frames and you have no say as to what they sell, then you are just screwed. You have only two ways to go, best guess on making them or find a new place to work. I would think that best guess on hole location and then make a sample lens or two would be the only way to go.

[gola]

beertv. Thanks for you comments. We are in Central America in a poor country and to be able to sell frames at good price, most of the time we buy closeouts.
That is why i have do deal with so many problems. You have to adjust to the market needs or you are out of bussiness.

I appeciate you comment and has learned a few thinks and also some new ideas has come that i will try to see if a procedure can be created to deal with this type of frames.

Once i heard that "Good procedures are what make a regular person perform in a excellent way". Let keep looking for a easier way to do it.
Sorry, I am translating form spanish.

Thanks

[beertv]

Thank you for the information. That explains a lot. If there is anything I can do to help you please feel free to email me anytime. donmildrum@yahoo.com

If I can help you get frames on close out or anything I would be happy to help there as well.

I was thinking about your problem over the weekend, and I think I have an idea for you to try. If you can cut a sample lens to the proper size, but do not drill it, then you could line the lens up with the frame holes and carefully mark the center of the hole. Then you could use this as a template for when you cut the real lens. All that would be left would be to drill the hole to the size of the screw but at least you would know where the hole should be started.

I hope that helps a little.

Don

[eyemann]

Are all the bushings for the rimless frames the same diameter? Are there any bushings that are bigger to help if the hole drilled is too large? Any helpful solutions to a larger hole that causes a sloppy fitting lens. Thanks for your help in advance.

[eromitlab]

Are all the bushings for the rimless frames the same diameter? Are there any bushings that are bigger to help if the hole drilled is too large? Any helpful solutions to a larger hole that causes a sloppy fitting lens. Thanks for your help in advance.

as far as the Silhouettes, there are two sizes that I've seen, one is the standard two pin and one is a larger bushing for the titan colors (zyl temples) but it won't fit anything but the zyl pins. There isn't much else, other than sending it back to your lab and having them re-do it for you. I find sending a chassis is sometimes helpful.

[mike.elmes]

The standard plugs for the silhouette minimal art and translucent collections require a 1.4mm hole...the plugs are a perfect fit. If they are sloppy, chances are the holes may be drilled too large.....which means a redo.Are all the bushings for the rimless frames the same diameter? Are there any bushings that are bigger to help if the hole drilled is too large? Any helpful solutions to a larger hole that causes a sloppy fitting lens. Thanks for your help in advance.

[LENNY]

I think they have another size bushings that will fit a larger hole!
The question is are they going to hold the min art chassies!?

[rsandr]

Are all the bushings for the rimless frames the same diameter? Are there any bushings that are bigger to help if the hole drilled is too large? Any helpful solutions to a larger hole that causes a sloppy fitting lens. Thanks for your help in advance.

As stated the holes should be 1.4mm.
You can however get bushings which are 1.5mm, some of the cheaper copies have larger stiffer bushes which can help you out in an emergency.

[Bev Heishman]

We use the Silhouette Lab in Washington state for these and they order our frames. Contact your Silhouette rep. Great work. Good turnaround with lenses only's drilled accurately when needed.

[Fezz]

I was thinking about your problem over the weekend, and I think I have an idea for you to try. If you can cut a sample lens to the proper size, but do not drill it, then you could line the lens up with the frame holes and carefully mark the center of the hole. Then you could use this as a template for when you cut the real lens. All that would be left would be to drill the hole to the size of the screw but at least you would know where the hole should be started.

I hope that helps a little.

Don


Great idea! I used this a lot back in the mid-eighties when the Elizabeth Arden and Tura rimlees and facet frames were BIG(and I mean big in size too!). You can use the demo lens as your guide and put it over the real lens, use a Lumocolor marker, or toothpick end to "dot" the lens real lens thru the holes in the demo. Good luck


Fezz
:cheers: