what license(s) should an optician, i.e what traning , have to do a good job [Archive]

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amanda

10-21-2005, 12:20 AM

What license(s) should an optician, i.e what training , have to do a good job. of measuring fitting height, etc. One thing I notice with them is trying to get the necessary fitting height of from a frame to convince me that that frame would work for Panamic intsead of playing safe and be sure about it.

QDO1

10-21-2005, 08:19 AM

If you are talking dispensers, then we have a 2 year full time course, or a 3 year day release course in the UK + 1 year pre registered, under the wing of another DO or OO. Some of us have also done a few years on the spectacle makers course, and a further few years on contact lenses, low vision aids etc.

The course did seem at the time o be full of stuff I would never need to know, but hindsight has put that one to bed

I try to learn something new every day

What is damm ironic, is that just as I finished the course, they de-regulated the profession, allowing anyone who wants to to dispense most products - which is just plain silly. At present, the uneducated can dispense all but children, people who are registered blind, and people with a prescription designated to be complex (over 10D)

Personally I think a 2 year Diploma course is about right for dispensers, with additional courses for those who want to manufacture or do more esoteric work

amanda

10-21-2005, 01:31 PM

Personally I think a 2 year Diploma course is about right for dispensers, with additional courses for those who want to manufacture or do more esoteric work

Visison care should be as important as any other type of health care. Just as no one with at least a minimum degree of LVN (Nurse with 2 years degree) cannot draw blood, no one with less than 2 year training should not be dispencing lens.

Judy Canty

10-21-2005, 11:23 PM

Try bouncing that idea off your friendly local OD.

shellrob

10-28-2005, 11:28 AM

Lady Nicole

10-28-2005, 02:41 PM

Visison care should be as important as any other type of health care. Just as no one with at least a minimum degree of LVN (Nurse with 2 years degree) cannot draw blood, no one with less than 2 year training should not be dispencing lens.

Actually, Amanda, you don't have to be an LVN to draw blood. I drew blood for a living as a phlebotomist several years ago and all I had was a training certificate from a technical education program. I worked in a local hospital in the Emergency Room, and I wasn't an LVN. My classification was "lab assistant", and I drew blood just as well as any nurse, (and even better than some of them!) because I made it my business to be damn good at my job, and I took pride in it. I didn't have any 2 year degree either, just my high school diploma. It was how I earned a living through college as I was finding my way in the medical profession. Sorry to burst your bubble! :o Maybe things are different in your state.

But my point is... a degree does not necessarily mean that a person is educated. I know plenty of people who have degrees who don't know squat about the real world, and some very smart and capable people who don't have formal education past high school. If you feel that your optician is not as proficient in his/her field as you would like them to be, then go find another one!

QDO1

10-29-2005, 06:55 AM

amanda

10-29-2005, 02:25 PM

Sorry, but I cannot continue to read all these posts by Amanda without thanking god that she's not my patient. I know people come here for information but enough is enough. Trust your Optician and if you cannot find yourself doing that...quit your job, become an Optician and make your own glasses.

Sorry....had to vent...

I thank God that you are not the ONLY optician out there. Even if you are, I would rather get an optician license myelf than trust opticians like you who, obviosuly, get threatened which is an indication of your incomptency. Competent people don't act like you. As simple as that.

After reading my posts, the fact that you didn't get that until I got into this forum, I wasn't getting reliable information from local opticians is proof of your compentency and intelligence level.

You are a disgrace to competent opticians.

amanda

10-29-2005, 02:37 PM

Actually, Amanda, you don't have to be an LVN to draw blood. I drew blood for a living as a phlebotomist several years ago and all I had was a training certificate from a technical education program. I worked in a local hospital in the Emergency Room, and I wasn't an LVN. My classification was "lab assistant", and I drew blood just as well as any nurse, (and even better than some of them!) because I made it my business to be damn good at my job, and I took pride in it. I didn't have any 2 year degree either, just my high school diploma. It was how I earned a living through college as I was finding my way in the medical profession. Sorry to burst your bubble! :o Maybe things are different in your state.

Well..you are one of those people who are diligent enought o amke ti your business and became competent. Not everyone out there are like you.

But my point is... a degree does not necessarily mean that a person is educated.

You are right. It's just that making it some work to get the licens e would deter the lazy from entering this profession.
I know that even with the degree requirement, there would be incompetent opticians.

There are many physicians I would be happy to see lose their medical licese. When someone enters a field, especially health related field, they'd better not play with someone else's health even if they want to play with their own.

I know plenty of people who have degrees who don't know squat about the real world, and some very smart and capable people who don't have formal education past high school.

My implication was to screen the lazy and the incompetent. The smart and the competent ones who wants to be opticain bad enough would not see the dergree requirement as an obstacle.

If you feel that your optician is not as proficient in his/her field as you would like them to be, then go find another one!

Wasn't that what I was doing here? How would I screen incompetent from the competent if I don't know what question to ask by doing some research which was eaxctly what I was doing.

QDO1

10-29-2005, 03:19 PM

on the basis of some of the posts from the US I have seen here, I think the original question is fair. People can seem to dispense products, that they do not have the education to check properly...thats de-regulation for you

amanda

10-30-2005, 12:37 AM

jbiggs114

10-30-2005, 05:10 PM

There is alot of wonderful opticians out there, but a few bad apples that are stuck in a rut, usually dispense what they are getting rewards for selling. They tend to put $'s before "what the patients needs are." Also there is alot of O.D.'s that had rather hire someone from Micky D's with no optical education that pay for an optician. Go figure.

fjpod

10-30-2005, 07:42 PM

jbiggs114

10-30-2005, 08:07 PM

As I said alot, I did not mean all. You are one of the OD's I would send people to because you care enough about your patients to make sure they are taken care of. I am a rep for a lab and I see it all the time where I can't make some of the Dr.'s understand if they invest in quality help it will increse their bottom line. Instead some of them hire just anybody and leaves it up to the lab to train them over the phone. Help me understand what they are thinking.

shellrob

10-31-2005, 08:35 AM

I'm actually not threatened by your questions at all when it comes to whether I'm qualified. My patients don't question me in everything I do because they trust me and they know that I'm there to help them find the best eyecare for their needs. The fact that you question everything...tells me you don't have trust and confidence in the Opticians that you're working with now and you probably need to find someone else to help you with your eyecare needs.

Judy Canty

10-31-2005, 09:14 AM

Hey, I'm one of those friendly neighborhood ODs...actually there are four of us. We currently employ 3 licensed dispensers. All receive profit sharing in addition to salary. You can't make generalizations.

Interesting, however your national organization still opposes optician licensing legislation at every turn. Until that changes, I will remain skeptical.

amanda

10-31-2005, 10:21 AM

I'm actually not threatened by your questions at all when it comes to whether I'm qualified. My patients don't question me in everything I do because they trust me and they know that I'm there to help them find the best eyecare for their needs.

That is between you and your patients. You can't judge me or expect me to act like your patients, not asking everything even I found an opticain I trust. It is my nature to find info and understand what I feel I need to know and I belive that it is my right.

The fact that you question everything...tells me you don't have trust and confidence in the Opticians that you're working with now and you probably need to find someone else to help you with your eyecare needs.

After I have had so many run-around when I ask a little bit of questions (I was just asking about Panamic) everywhere I went, why should I bother trusting anyone?

In their despearateness to get the business, the second place I went to was ready to put Panamic for me in a frame I found at their place which had only 16 mm fitting height, saying that that was enough even though I was telling her that I read that the requirement is 18mm.

I came home and read through the notes I wrote down on panamic and found fititng height info to be 18mm. I also came home and search online and found the same frame for $70 less but I didn't try to buy online while but I didn't pay attention about the info I found on the vertical width to be 28.4 mm. Instead, I told them that I would like to use that frame for my computer pair and went tothe store - by then I wa stalking with the manager, I was suggested to do Sola Access but was also told that she was busy and couldn't tell me more about it. So I came home and search info on Sola Access but going nowhere and eventually landed in this forum where I started getting useful info. I learned about shamir office and contacted the manager an asked whether they could put Shamir office in that frame. She said yes but later I learned that Shamir Office needs 13mm + 16 mm fitting height. That frame only has 28.4 mm.

Now you tell me why I should waste any more time running from places to places risking getting biased info while I can stay home and get info form this forum w/o having to worry about their self-interest at the expense of my eye care?

Any optician who feel offended for being questioned everything is not good enough to be my optician, period.

shellrob

10-31-2005, 10:31 AM

Wow....I stand by my original post.

Good luck to you.....

amanda

10-31-2005, 11:07 AM

Wow....I stand by my original post.

To me that translates to feeling threatened for being asked questions.

Good luck to you.....

I am in this forum which means I am having good luck:)-

shellrob

10-31-2005, 12:27 PM

Not threatened, just don't want to continue to beat my head against a brick wall.

Happy Halloween.

amanda

10-31-2005, 06:34 PM

Not threatened, just don't want to continue to beat my head against a brick wall.

It's your right not to be patient with an informed customer but you don't have a right to put the baalme on the customer who strives to cover her bases.

Jubilee

10-31-2005, 10:51 PM

I think the concern is that you have too much information... You have enough information that you question everything, and basically you are directing the sale. Some opticians deal better with this than others.

We are trained consultants. Our training, education, and our experience is what we pride ourselves on to make sure you get the best value for your eyewear. By Value, we mean balancing the best optics, cosmetics, function and price.

Opticians have their opinions on what products work best. For example in your computer pair, some of us our die hard Sola Access, some Shamir office, and some will use other types or change depending on the close work vs Computer Vs Distance ratio. But each of us wants to be able to have a part in that decision making process so we can utilize what our experience tell us will work or not.

Currently you are trying to direct the sale. You are walking into an office and stating I want this. The lens you want may be a) something this office is not familiar with B) maybe a lens they have had a problem with C) not the lens the optician feels would work best for the task needed. If you are going against their recommendations, they don't want to be held liable. Remakes cost money. If they feel you will be a hard fit, they won't want to deal with you for fear they will lose money on the deal.

You have been wanting to purchase these glasses for weeks. At this point you are frustrated and still have nothing to show for the amount of research you put in. Some are concerned that by us mentioning specific lenses instead of a general class (ie the Shamir Office, instead of intermediate use progressives) that we are actually doing you a disservice by convincing you that you have to have this product over another, when you could be happy with any of them if fitted properly. The desire to create the most technically appealing glasses can turn out to dissappoint you in the end because of how much effort it took, and you may not be as WOWed as you thought you should be.

If you haven't liked or felt comfortable with any of the offices you dealt with so far, ask you friends, family, coworkers for reccomendations. Heck you can post what area you are in to see if one of the professionals on here can assist you. Just find someone that you can honestly sit down, let them tell you what their suggestions are, why. If you feel comfortable, can accept and appreciate what they say, then act on it. If not thank them for their time and move on. Just let them have a chance to explain what their own suggestions are and why.

Cassandra

BTW: On the Frame with a B of 28.4, it is possible to fit at a slightly lower of higher height, and loose the .6mm of either distance or reading or split it, and the majority of people won't notice.

jbiggs114

11-01-2005, 12:48 AM

I say it is time for you to buy a pair of glasses and move on. As long as that progressive is fit properly you will be fine regardless of the brand. It took me one day to buy a new car and you have taken a month to purchase glasses. I agree it is good to research and yes, some dispensers don't know what they are doing, but go to an optician, buy your glasses and use what that optician is comfortable with fitting. You have so much info you are beginning to confuse us all.
GOOD LUCK!

amanda

11-02-2005, 02:01 AM

I think the concern is that you have too much information...
You have enough information

What enough information? They *were* lying to me so that I would buy the frames from them and put the lens and go. After I got some info, they got threatened. So I got more info and will decide from my own reasearch. As simple as that.

I really do not have time to read your whole post but when clicking quote, I noticed a line where you said that it's been a while that I have been working on this. Yes, it's been a while. If you improve your English reading you would understand that I was having a hard time getting the frame I like that would work for the lens I want and only recently I have decided on rimless but I needed some research work done to make sure that I buy quality rimless frames.

To those who get annoyed at my research work, that's just too bad. After spending 2 years doing research for my Maters's in Analytical Chemistry degree, doing research like this instead of wasting any more of my time trusting others, is no big deal for me though I would have prefered that the places I went had compentent opticians. So I am sleeping better these days and I hope you are too.

amanda

11-02-2005, 02:03 AM

Jubilee

11-02-2005, 08:05 AM

How can you tell me to improve my english if you don't even bother to read the whole post. Is your research skills not that great, or do you just not want to take in what my message is?

There is nothing wrong with being informed.. the problem is when your desire to find the *best* is making it impossible for you to get the correction you want. You know that whole adage of "Just enough information to be dangerous"

You pride yourself on getting your masters.. in chemistry. We pride ourselves in getting our education and practical experience in this industry.

IF you read my earilier post all the way through, you were questioning a .6mm difference between the stated B measurement and what the recommended fitting portions were for the lens. I stated that the majority of opticians would say this frame was a go, because most patients won't miss a .5mm on the seg or .1 mm in the distance.

Chemistry is an exact science, this business is not. People's sight is subjective. We have tolerances based upon that very fact. In the case above, they could be manufactured in the industry tolernaces with no problem. Just like there are no machines that can compute what a person's rx is do the how much our brain compensates, the same is true with that final glasses. There is not a progressive/frame/material/fitting that will please 100% of the people with the same rx. But I can tell you that if you don't want something to work, you will always be right.

Going with a rimless frame, it is even easier to adjust the pattern to make it be be a bit larger to give you full area. There are all types of things we can do make it work for you.. but you won't give anyone a chance to explain it or talk it through with you.

Cassandra

shellrob

11-02-2005, 08:37 AM

I think the fact that the poster has resorted to personal attacks is cause for us all to not even bother anymore. Just like Jubilee said, the poster has enough information and can take it as they wish. Good luck to your quest for the "perfect" optician and the "perfect" pair of glasses. I think this case is closed.

QDO1

11-02-2005, 09:59 AM

I think there is a little unfairness here

It is not unreasonable to go into an opticians shop and ask for a discussion about a Panamic lens - it is one of the best selling progressive lenses on the market. Any opticians worth thier salt ought to be able to discuss that lens with a patient, and answer any relevant questions.

How do you expect the customer to feel, when confronted with a benevolant attitude in the store. If this patient was to come to me, I would chat about the Panamic, and then if I felt there was a better option, go though the benefits and atributes of that option

What we can learn from amanda is the fact that there are a lot of practices out there that offer very poor customer service. It is a shame she feels the need to even come and ask on a discussion board what to do, because the industry should have a high enough standard overall to deal with what is on the face of it a staightforward dispensing and some fair and straight forward questions

The very fact that as optical professionals we bother wih a discussion board like this probrably marks us out as "caring" a little more than the other guy down the road. My experience is that "the other guy" often isnt that good

My partner is gluten and dairy free - that means no wheat, bread, wheat protine, milk protine, cheese etc. In the food industry - say take a delicatessen, we are gobsmakked by the lack of knowlege about the products they sell, and dont even ask in the hyper market. If we get the food wrong my partner gets really Ill, so the ownus is on us to know whats what, and that took lots of research, and a few mistakes

Earlier in another related thread we had a chap who dispenses a lens that by his own admission he hasnt a clue how to check. Faced with that projected level of incompetance, it is no wonder that Amanda feels she needs to bone up on whats what and whats not

amanda

11-02-2005, 01:04 PM

How can you tell me to improve my english if you don't even bother to read the whole post.

You know what I meant was the fact that my posts clearly indicated I already lost tremendous amount of time going nowhere and then landed here. If you didn't know my story throughly, don't come criticizing me for searching info myself. I assume that you criticized me only after readign all my posts. If you didn't read them all, then don't.

Is your research skills not that great, or do you just not want to take in what my message is?
I told you I didn't read your whoel post; I had no time for crap.

There is nothing wrong with being informed.. the problem is when your desire to find the *best* is making it impossible

Who are pou to decided what I should desire? Are you buying the frame and the lens for me wiith your money?

for you to get the correction you want. You know that whole adage of "Just enough information to be dangerous"

Better take that risk and being fooled by the incompetent money chasers.

You pride yourself on getting your masters.. in chemistry. We pride ourselves in getting our education and practical experience in this industry.
It's not about pride so much. I just want people to quot feeling threatened for my doign research.

I gave many chances to the optical places; they are either incompetent or put their interest first and so I waste no more time searching for the one I can trust. I will decide what I want and py the money and do that. I need no input from those baised places. If you can't understand that, sorry...

Again, I didn't read your post all the way trhoguh because I alread got the info I need. I decided on rimless frame so that I could put panamic lens. Case closed on lens issue. Now, I am trying to buy the right frame.

IF you read my earilier post all the way through, you were questioning a .6mm difference between the stated B measurement and what the recommended fitting portions were for the lens. I stated that the majority of opticians would say this frame was a go, because most patients won't miss a .5mm on the seg or .1 mm in the distance.

Chemistry is an exact science, this business is not. People's sight is subjective. We have tolerances based upon that very fact. In the case above, they could be manufactured in the industry tolernaces with no problem. Just like there are no machines that can compute what a person's rx is do the how much our brain compensates, the same is true with that final glasses. There is not a progressive/frame/material/fitting that will please 100% of the people with the same rx. But I can tell you that if you don't want something to work, you will always be right.

Going with a rimless frame, it is even easier to adjust the pattern to make it be be a bit larger to give you full area. There are all types of things we can do make it work for you.. but you won't give anyone a chance to explain it or talk it through with you.

Cassandra

amanda

11-02-2005, 01:07 PM

Earlier in another related thread we had a chap who dispenses a lens that by his own admission he hasnt a clue how to check. Faced with that projected level of incompetance, it is no wonder that Amanda feels she needs to bone up on whats what and whats not

Thank you. All I was trying to do was minimize the risk of being fooled.

shellrob

11-02-2005, 02:33 PM

I think this case is closed.

Good luck on your search.

Jubilee

11-02-2005, 05:07 PM

I think there is a little unfairness here

It is not unreasonable to go into an opticians shop and ask for a discussion about a Panamic lens - it is one of the best selling progressive lenses on the market. Any opticians worth thier salt ought to be able to discuss that lens with a patient, and answer any relevant questions.

How do you expect the customer to feel, when confronted with a benevolant attitude in the store. If this patient was to come to me, I would chat about the Panamic, and then if I felt there was a better option, go though the benefits and atributes of that option

I have no problem discussing options, I love to show off what knowledge I have to my patients. I find it makes them more confident in me and the products I recommend.

What my concern is, is that in the quest for finding the perfection. Spending weeks, doing hours upon hours of research, visiting a dozen different opticians, all raise the level of expectations here. If she purchases what is deemed to be the best of everything, and it doesn't provide the vision she thinks she should have (ie thinking that it will be like it was before she needed glasses) that there will be an unrealistic expectation and she won't be happy.

I research things before I buy too. There comes a point though where people get too bogged down in the need for information and then don't act. If it were me, and I spent a month or longer getting information about something, I would expect it to be the next best thing since the invention of the wheel. If it was anything less than that, then I would be disappointed in how much time and effort I put into the task. Spending a month on researching two comparable lenses, and not giving the opticians a chance to explain why they feel this option would work is what I think is the problem.

As I said before, I have no problem educating my patients. I feel this is part of my duty. What I do get concerned about is where the desire for information causes a person not to act. Find a local optician to discuss, not dictate things with. They can tell you how something you may not think is right, can be. Just like the examples of how the one frame with the 28.4 B could work. Utilize their experience.

I find it hard to believe that all the opticians in your area are incompetent. As I mentioned before. Post your location and ask for referrals. Someone from this board may be near you.

Cassandra

PS. None of my posts have ever meant to be an attack. I was trying to convey my concern over a quest for perfection in an industry that isn't a perfect science. If I have come off that way, then I am sorry.

amanda

11-03-2005, 01:13 AM

I think this case is closed.

Feel free to think whatever you wish. Seriously.

Good luck on your search.
Hmm ... luck. Never really relied on it.

amanda

11-03-2005, 01:47 AM

What my concern is, is that in the quest for finding the perfection.

Define perfection.

All I was trying to find out was the best (service as well as products) I could get. I could possibly acheive that goal. Then I will reach a state of perfection, don't I?

Spending weeks, doing hours upon hours of research, visiting a dozen different opticians, all raise the level of expectations here. If she purchases what is deemed to be the best of everything, and it doesn't provide the vision she thinks she should have

What do you think that I think?

(ie thinking that it will be like it was before she needed glasses) that there will be an unrealistic expectation and she won't be happy.

Before I needed glasses was age 15 though I didn't wear it until I was 23.

I research things before I buy too. There comes a point though where people get too bogged down in the need for information and then don't act. If it were me, and I spent a month or longer

So you are judging me based on the way you do things w.r.t how much time I should spend, etc. What do you know about my schedule and my prorities though as important as getting glasses are to me? Gee, I rest my case that some of you are so bothered because I don't do things the way you think I should do just like most customers who walk into an optical place with no clue of the risks they are taking trusting a stranger blindly would do.

Well, I never was a follower, espcially not blindly.

getting information about something, I would expect it to be the next best thing since the invention of the wheel. If it was anything less than that, then I would be disappointed in how much time and effort I put into the task. Spending a month on researching two comparable lenses,

What you know about my schedule? And my priortities?

and not giving the opticians a chance to explain why they feel this option would work is what I think is the problem.

Which optician are you referring to? You? Well, your coming to explain with
"trust what the local opticain say blindly" attitude doesn't fly with me. Here in this forum, many opticians see other opticians' posts and I get quality info.

As I said before, I have no problem educating my patients. I feel this is part of my duty. What I do get concerned about is where the desire for information causes a person not to act.

So you are judging me that my desire for information overshawdow everything. Where do you get all that?

Find a local optician to discuss, not dictate things with.

Way passed discussion point with them when they failed to be competent and wasted my time. Only a fool would continue to waste time walking from one office to another looking for a competent optician when I can find many in this forum sitting in front of my PC.

They can tell you how something you may not think is right, can be.

You still don't get it do you? Let me spell it out again for you. I haven't found anyone that is unbaised based on $$?

Just like the examples of how the one frame with the 28.4 B could work. Utilize their experience.

I find it hard to believe that all the opticians in your area are incompetent.

All the opticians I have spent time with were incompetent or inexperienced. Is it possible for you to comprehend that? Please do try to understand the phrase "All the opticians I have spent time with".

As I mentioned before. Post your location and ask for referrals. Someone from this board may be near you.

Do you know for sure that I haven't done just that?

PS. None of my posts have ever meant to be an attack. I was trying to convey my concern over a quest for perfection in an industry that isn't a perfect science. If I have come off that way, then I am sorry.

When you used the phrase "perfect science", to me, it translates to "sloppy work should be accepted." Optometry is science. Physics of light, used in Optometry is science.

Precision may be not perfect but every measurement related to making a pair eyeglasses ( eye exam as well as measuring the fittingheight, PD, etc.) is science. There is no such thing as perfect science.

QDO1

11-03-2005, 02:02 AM

What my concern is, is that in the quest for finding the perfection. Spending weeks, doing hours upon hours of research, visiting a dozen different opticians, all raise the level of expectations here. If she purchases what is deemed to be the best of everything, and it doesn't provide the vision she thinks she should have (ie thinking that it will be like it was before she needed glasses) that there will be an unrealistic expectation and she won't be happy.

The first thing I say to any new presbyope is "Everything we do from now on is a comprimise, it is my skill, and our collective judgment that ensures the optimal comprimise is reached" I would urge Amanda to dwell on that

QDO1

11-03-2005, 03:53 AM

Judy Canty

11-03-2005, 08:25 AM

Aren't you guys tired of this yet? It's getting pretty tiresome and no one is learning anything. This has become yet another example of attempting to provide advice for a patient/customer we can neither see nor evaluate.

Lonewolf_21187

11-03-2005, 08:40 AM

The taking of correct measurements for any progressive lens first requires the optician to properly fit a frame to the patients facial features, power of the Rx, and allows enough room for proper height, and don't forget it has to be a striking look for the patient also. There are many variables to consider. Make sure that when all is decided, that the frame is properly adjusted than take your measurements taking account of the facial differences.ex. eyes unequal in the sockets. or corneal reflex differences. There is really know magic to fitting proper heights, just taking the good advice of others here and at your education seminars will help. Keep in mind most of the progressive lens manufacturers do have literature on proper fitting guidlines for there products. Have a great day.

Jubilee

11-03-2005, 09:18 AM

When you used the phrase "perfect science", to me, it translates to "sloppy work should be accepted." Optometry is science. Physics of light, used in Optometry is science.

Precision may be not perfect but every measurement related to making a pair eyeglasses ( eye exam as well as measuring the fittingheight, PD, etc.) is science. There is no such thing as perfect science.

I am not saying sloppy science. What I am saying is that while Optics maybe a hard and exacting science, vision is not.

Current theory is that the size and shape of the eye and its features is what determines whether someone is near or far sighted, has astigmatism, etc. We can measure all of those features, but can not come up with a hard and fast rule of if the length is x, and the width is y, and the curvature is z. .then their script will be a 4.50 -1.25 X 32...

We may get three people who have this same rx with an add of 1.50, with the same model frame, and the same measurements, may still find that a different progressive suits them better over another. And one may not find a progressive works for them at all.

Some patients prefer the recommended fitting of right on the pupil. Some like just below, some (truck drivers) like them 4-5mm below the pupil.

Pantoscopic tilt, face form, vertex distance all also contribute to how a script wears.

I have a lady who loves her comforts at 16mm. She has been wearing them there for years.. I have another who can't stand any less than a 24.

This is where having a conversation with the patient, face to face to be able to look at the fit on, evaluate how the wear and the work,etc.. is needed to be able to decide the best lens choice and height.

Some opticians have their preference of lenses based upon experience. Heck you asked us for our opinions, and you got many different choices popping up. Solamax, solaone, panamic, office vs access, Hoya, etc...

We all have our favorites based upon our success rates. I know I have lenses I don't recommend because I feel they are inferior to the ones I do. We charge the same price for all our progressives. So this isn't an effort to collect more money for you. We would rather just put you in something we think is this better. Less chance of remakes (and lost money) on our end.

Sometimes they make their recommendation based upon what they can get from their lab. Not all wholesale labs carry all lens options available.

Sometimes yes, they are looking out for their pocketbook. No one in this industry like remakes, and to lose money on a sale. Therefore everyone wants to protect themselves from it if possible and at times this means letting someone walk.

Anyway, I am sorry for getting you all worked up and making assumptions. I guess the amount of postings here are no true indication of what is happening elsewhere.

I am done, I just wanted to try to make you understand what I meant in that last post.

Have a good life, and good luck. I really hope your when you get your glasses they were everything you hoped for.

Cassandra

shellrob

11-03-2005, 09:37 AM

Yes, the entire post is a waste of time and getting no one anywhere. It seems as though if the poster receives a response they don't like, the're quick to give a very rude response. I know...I've had a few. I don't think anything is satisfying this person and that's why I said "case closed". Once again...good luck on your search.

amanda

11-03-2005, 11:48 AM

If you want to do some research, here is some unbiased, and research based analysis of current popular lens designs

http://optometry.osu.edu/COOR/4059.cfm

Its hard work, and a lot to plough through - see what you think

Thanks. I will as time permits.

Since I have to wear eye glasses for the rest of my life, and I need the best vision possible for me to be productive in my job as a programmer, and to enjoy leisure reading the way I used to be able to as an adolescent and teenager, w.o getting too much eye strain and tired eyes (instead of saving my eyes for more important readings only), it's a good investment for me to spend time and continue spending time and do research.

You are the best.:)

amanda

11-03-2005, 11:50 AM

Aren't you guys tired of this yet? It's getting pretty tiresome and no one is learning anything.

How do you know that no one is learning?

amanda

11-03-2005, 12:15 PM

I am not saying sloppy science. What I am saying is that while Optics maybe a hard and exacting science, vision is not.

Current theory is that the size and shape of the eye and its features is what determines whether someone is near or far sighted, has astigmatism, etc. We
[QUOTE=Jubilee]I am not saying sloppy science. What I am saying is that while Optics maybe a hard and exacting science, vision is not.

Current theory is that the size and shape of the eye and its features is what determines whether someone is near or far sighted, has astigmatism, etc. We can measure all of those features, but can not come up with a hard and fast rule of if the length is x, and the width is y, and the curvature is z. .then their script will be a 4.50 -1.25 X 32...

We may get three people who have this same rx with an add of 1.50, with the same model frame, and the same measurements, may still find that a different progressive suits them better over another. And one may not find a progressive works for them at all.

Some patients prefer the recommended fitting of right on the pupil. Some like just below, some (truck drivers) like them 4-5mm below the pupil.

Do you think I am not aware of that?

Pantoscopic tilt, face form, vertex distance all also contribute to how a script wears.

I have a lady who loves her comforts at 16mm. She has been wearing them there for years.. I have another who can't stand any less than a 24.

This is where having a conversation with the patient, face to face to be able to look at the fit on, evaluate how the wear and the work,etc.. is needed to be able to decide the best lens choice and height.

I haven't met any optician so patient to spend time face to face with me and also not make a decision one-sidedly.

Some opticians have their preference of lenses based upon experience. Heck you asked us for our opinions, and you got many different choices popping up. Solamax, solaone, panamic, office vs access, Hoya, etc...
That's what I wanted: info on many choices, not just what one optician 's choice.

We all have our favorites based upon our success rates.
Of course.

I know I have lenses I don't recommend because I feel they are inferior to the ones I do. We charge the same price for all our progressives. So this isn't an effort to collect more money for you. We would rather just put you in something we think is this better. Less chance of remakes (and lost money) on our end.

Please do not speak in terms of *we*. I was almost burned, remember?

Sometimes they make their recommendation based upon what they can get from their lab. Not all wholesale labs carry all lens options available.

Then they should tell me the reason and instead of acting like, they don't do other lens because it's not as good. Honesty is the betts policy with me.

Sometimes yes, they are looking out for their pocketbook. No one in this industry like remakes, and to lose money on a sale. Therefore everyone wants to protect themselves from it if possible and at times this means letting someone walk.

No, they don't let me walk. They wanted me to buy the frame from them and order the lens and be stuck with that frame. Once I put the lens, I can't retrun that *used* farme, can I, even if it's wrong for the lens they recommended?

Anyway, I am sorry for getting you all worked up and making assumptions.

You don't make me all worked up. I am just spending time responding because I want opticians to stop thinking that they can make unilateral decision for a customer like me.

When friends heard that I was going to buy Subaru legacy this summer, some (not all) of them suggested me this and that. One who came along with me to do the bargaining was instead suggesting me to buy Hundai, that plastic piece of junks.

I was like, in my mind, "Yo..I know what I want. I did my research, and I am buying legacy." So I avoided giving them opportunities to talk me into buying something other than what I have decided after doing extensive research. And I am very happy with my legacy 2005.

I guess the amount of postings here are no true indication of what is happening elsewhere.

I am done, I just wanted to try to make you understand what I meant in that last post.

Just have a little more faith in your customers, okay? Some of us know what we are doing.

Have a good life, and good luck. I really hope your when you get your glasses they were everything you hoped for.

I am sure it will be. I am alone. I have no parents and older sisters who couldn't care less. I have to do everything alone or else give a peice of my meat to guys who would help me in things like purchasing cars (with my own money). I choose to do it by myeself.

When I need to rearrange heavy furnitures and stuff, I get teenagers and pay them to help me. I am resourceful. I have to.

By relying on myself, I save time, energy, and headache and having to deal with crap.

Believe me. I have a good life.

hcjilson

11-03-2005, 03:14 PM

I am sure it will be. I am alone. I have no parents and older sisters who couldn't care less. I have to do everything alone or else give a peice of my meat to guys who would help me in things like purchasing cars (with my own money). I choose to do it by myeself.

When I need to rearrange heavy furnitures and stuff, I get teenagers and pay them to help me. I am resourceful. I have to.

By relying on myself, I save time, energy, and headache and having to deal with crap.

Believe me. I have a good life.

With all due respect, if you cannot stick to the subject of this thread I will be happy to close it!

amanda

11-03-2005, 08:43 PM

With all due respect, if you cannot stick to the subject of this thread I will be happy to close it!

Are you asking for permission? C:drop: lose it.

cinders831

11-03-2005, 09:04 PM

Why your attitude Amanda?

hcjilson

11-03-2005, 09:34 PM

To paraphrase the author of this thread.....who said:

"I am buying the frame (rimless) online. Why should I buy the frames from these liers? Ahhh..the power of internet!"

Ahhh......the power of the moderator!