I love this kind of business ethics

[amanda]

http://www.laramyk.com/products/varilux.html

Many have been asking when, if, etc. we will obtain a Varilux listing. So, here's the scoop.

Varilux currently requires its distributors to sign a contract agreeing to promote and recommend Varilux product over all others. While Varilux may indeed have a very fine product, we do not believe their technology is unique in the industry, nor do we believe that any progressive is a "one lens fits all."

Since we at Laramy-K have built our reputation on recommending the best lens that fits an individual patient's needs, we unfortunately, do not feel that Varilux and Laramy-K are a good fit and have made the difficult decision to not distribute Varilux product at this time. We sincerely apologize for any incovenience this may cause. If the situation changes in the future, we will be sure to keep you updated.

Sincerely,

Janet Benjamin
President
Laramy-K


See their unbiased support at

http://www.laramyk.com/products/manufacturers.html

[amanda]

http://www.laramyk.com/products/varilux.html


Now i understand why the guy in SF was not enthusiastic about panamic.

[Christina]

well, that's sort of interesting, but I don't really understand it. For one thing, it's dated 2003, which is rather old. But other than that, I don't go to a lab to get my glasses filled, I go to an optician. I've been to several and none of them have pushed Varilux as the best over any other lens, yet they all can get a Varilux prescription filled, if I choose. So it isn't the case that any place that provides Varilux is going to tell you that is the best lens.

I did have one chain optical shop say they couldn't get Varilux with Crizal coating, I recall, which I thought was odd as I think they are the same owner.

I don't know what to make of an optometrist or optician who would depend upon a lab supplier to tell them what the best lens is.

Maybe some professional on this board can comment on these statements, but they look a little suspect or "who cares" to me, as a customer. For one thing, that lab lists Essilor in their supplier list, and I believe Essilor owns Varilux, so that is kind of odd that they claim they can't carry Varilux.

[QDO1]

I did have one chain optical shop say they couldn't get Varilux with Crizal coating, I recall, which I thought was odd as I think they are the same owner..

I agree like asking for a Ford car but Lotus paint - you just wouldn't do it. Furthermore, Essilor coatings are developed for the Essilor lens substrate, and hardcoat, so it would be plain silly not to use thier coating on thier lens. In my experience, when I see a job which has mixed coatings and lenses, a year or two after the coatings are falling off or in a really poor state


I don't know what to make of an optometrist or optician who would depend upon a lab supplier to tell them what the best lens is.

A unqualified and unexperienced one


Maybe some professional on this board can comment on these statements, but they look a little suspect or "who cares" to me, as a customer. For one thing, that lab lists Essilor in their supplier list, and I believe Essilor owns Varilux, so that is kind of odd that they claim they can't carry Varilux.
Seems fishy to me too. But what I do know is that some manufactureres give Opticians a really hard time, and I assume the intermediate labs could be under the same pressure.

An example of this was my last run in with a bully of a manufacturer: Oakley, who
1. Insist you take a silly ammount of expensive product before being able to sell 1 of the sunspex, then
2. insist you take many pieces from the very inassessable RX range (which hurts even more when the cycle shop up the road only stocks the sunspex range)
3. have an awful returns policy (thats between the shop and the manufacturer) whilst offering a superb service to customers that contact them direct!

I avoid contracts that limit me like the plague. What might also be of interest is the discount structures that are around.. which almost force opticians to go with manufacturer X over Y - that is if you want to break even at the end of the month

[amanda]

I don't know what to make of an optometrist or optician who would depend upon a lab supplier to tell them what the best lens is.
A unqualified and unexperienced one

This reminds me of the girl - her manager who was a more experienced optician was the one who introduced me about Sola Access - who told me that they could get me Shamir Office lens. When I asked what AR would they put, the answer was Crizal Alize. Later, I got to talk wiht the manager on the phone, she frankly told me that they didn't work with Shamir Office and she didn't know much about it. And another one as another branch of this same store whereI went to look at some frame told me that she doesn't know much about Shamir Office but if I want to do it she could ask the lab that AR would go best with Shamir Office.

I am wondering how I could possibly be sure that they really put the AR they said they do.

[karen]

Ok, I work for a authorized Varilux lab but we also carry Zeiss (we do Zeiss AR on site) Shamir and the rest of the gang. You do have to agree to some terms to be authorized Varilux and while I do not totally agree with all of them I appreciate the fact that not just anybody can carry their product. The reason Crizal and Alize aren't applied to some lenses is sometimes just an issue of hard coat compatability and they tell us what will work and what won't .
It's not that the lab tells the OD or optician what the best lens choice is (well, we do have opinions :p ) Generally the office has a manufacturer they prefer to support. There are some offices that seem to be completely uneducated about most lenses and don't want to learn.
Essilor supplies other products to labs besides Varilux. Varilux would be their "brand" side. You can get a Natural or Ovation without being an authorized Varilux distributor.
It is a bit confusing and a bit political but such is the world of optics...

[amanda]

Ok, I work for an authorized Varilux lab but we also carry Zeiss (we do Zeiss AR on site) Shamir and the rest of the gang.

When you use the term "Zeiss Shamir", and said "we do Zeiss AR on site", what does that mean? Does that means, Zeiss AR was put on the lens in your lab, and not at manufacturing time of the lens? I guess AR is not put on Shamir products at manufacturing time.

[Happylady]

When you use the term "Zeiss Shamir", and said "we do Zeiss AR on site", what does that mean? Does that means, Zeiss AR was put on the lens in your lab, and not at manufacturing time of the lens? I guess AR is not put on Shamir products at manufacturing time.

All progressives and computer lenses have to be surfaced, they are not stock lenses. The lab gets them from the manufacturer with the front of the lens finished and then the lab sufaces them by finishing the back of the lens to get the correct prescription. Thus the AR coating is always added afterwards and not by the manufacture of the lens.

It is only stock lenses that you can get with the AR already on it. This would be single vision only.

[Trevor D]

I am wondering how I could possibly be sure that they really put the AR they said they do.

You could always ask them for the lab invoices. Don't be surprised if they want to cover up the wholesale price first.

T

[Darryl Meister]

See their unbiased support at

This is simply a list of their current suppliers and their contact information. And, Yes, the company that makes Varilux is one of their suppliers. However, in order to distribute Varilux products from Essilor you have to agree to certain stipulations, including the promotion of Varilux products, as they noted in that letter you cited. Consequently, I'm not sure what you're insinuating here, or why it would really matter at all? Are you a customer of Laramy-K's who is trying to get Varilux lenses from them? If so, you might contact them directly and talk to them about it.

[QDO1]

I am wondering how I could possibly be sure that they really put the AR they said they do.
pretty much each coating has a reflex that is unique, for example a essilor one looks different to a zeiss one. Any practitioner worth thier salt will be able to identify each product, by just looking at them

[keithbenjamin]

well, that's sort of interesting, but I don't really understand it. For one thing, it's dated 2003, which is rather old. But other than that, I don't go to a lab to get my glasses filled, I go to an optician. I've been to several and none of them have pushed Varilux as the best over any other lens, yet they all can get a Varilux prescription filled, if I choose. So it isn't the case that any place that provides Varilux is going to tell you that is the best lens.

Actually, the letter was written well before 2003 and included in our price list to help answer our customers' inquiries regarding Varilux product. To date neither Varilux nor Laramy-K positions have changed. In fact, Laramy-K was recently solicited to provide Crizal to our customers. The soliciation came with a contract that included terms ostensibly forbiding us from mentioning any other coatings to our customers unless it were in the context of being inferior to Crizal.

Sure, there are many providers of Varilux and Crizal that recommend other products to their customers. However, they do so at the risk of losing their contracts (at least according the terms they've agreed with). This is in no way meant to be critical of those providers. Varilux and Crizal have enjoyed wide market acceptance. For better or for worse, this just happens to be the position we've taken over the years and bears explanation to our customers.

I don't know what to make of an optometrist or optician who would depend upon a lab supplier to tell them what the best lens is.

It has traditionally been the role of wholesale labs to educate their customers on lens product. Wholesale labs are in a unique position to gather information and feed back from a much larger population and often across a wider variety of products than the retailer. Outside of the lab, the biggest source for product information for retailers are product reps. The lab has the opportunity to be a largely unbiased source of information, where the product rep for obvious reasons does not. Furthermore, many labs have experience with or may even specialize in difficult prescriptions and applications the retail optician or doctor may not have seen. In this way the wholesale lab often plays a vital role in providing the end wearer with the product that best fits his/her needs.



-Keith

[Chris Ryser]

It has traditionally been the role of wholesale labs to educate their customers on lens product. Wholesale labs are in a unique position to gather information and feed back from a much larger population and often across a wider variety of products than the retailer. ..................
-Keith

Perfect description by Keith of the traditional optical wholesale setup...................however what I have seen coming for quite a few yearsis, that it is no more a matter of quality, design, looks and whatever you want to call it

It has become a matter of commercial politics and a war between a very few major optical corporative players on a world wide basis. The ultimate goal. at this moment is to form a world wide cartel dominating the optical trade from manufacturing.........to wholsale.........and finally also retail.

In the here discussed case the lab is either forced to promote one particular make only or he can not have and deal with its products. Therefore he will have to work with competitive products that do not yet apply similar conditions.

We should also be aware that all of the large players make and sell basically the same products and types in lenses, and to the end user it really does not make much of a physical difference which brand or make he is wearing in his glasses.

Massive advertising to the end user by these major corporation by means of bomarding the the public through radio,TV, newpapers and fashion magazines, is steering the the demand for their products.

As a result the individual lab that can not provide such products anymore is being pushed into a corner. It is a matter of fighting against the stream of corporate domination politics or end up by joining their particular ranks.

The USA has so far proven to be the best breeding grounds to make these test's for this political tug of war. Half of the USA's retail opticians are not regulated, therefore many are not fully trained professionals. This means that the optical corporations can fully attack the public with their advertising on lenses of which the public only sees what is presented to them and asks the retailer for it. The optician does not have to get into technical discussions as the sale is already made.

For the last few years I have been following the press releases of all major optical corporations and it is frightening to see how their tentacles are growing into every corner of the world.

I am of the conviction that it is not anymore a matter of products, because they all have good ones, it is a matter of brainwashing the public through adverting to eliminate non participating competition.

[mobileoptic]

"I am of the conviction that it is not anymore a matter of products, because they all have good ones, it is a matter of brainwashing the public through adverting to eliminate non participating competition." Chris Ryser

I agree and the also the brainwashing of Opticians who are to lazy to do their homework on the different products and best applications.

I also think that a wholesale lab manager is a great resource for information. They should be at least as knowledgeable about the different product's pros and cons as we are and probably more so.

[William Walker]

When in private practice, we used a few different labs, because, just like everything else in Opticianry, there is no one perfect frame, lens, coating, optician, or ...lab. We had an Essilor lab for when the best lens for a patient was a Varilux; we used Hoya Largo for when a patient needed a 1.70; we used Rimless Connection in Miami (WHO I STRONGLY FAVOR) for any drill mounts;etc...I wouldn't (as an office, or a patient) be too concerned with the internal business politics of a lab (if you're a professional), or a dispensary (if you're a patient). Either way, you have access to get multiple opinions for no charge, and can, for yourself decide for you, what the best product is in any given scenario, and can then search to find who carries that product.
You can't be mad at a Ford dealer for not carrying the Vette you really want.

William

And by the way, if an office hasn't heard of a particluar brand of lens or frame - that doesn't mean it's a bad lens or frame. Most opticians are knowledgable in the products they carry, but most do not look to research their competitor's brands. I've sold many Shamir lenses (including the Office), and it's a great lens. The job for you, the patient to do, is talk to optician's who know that lens, and who know your scenario, to find out if it's best for your Rx, and your work environment, and your budget.

[QDO1]

At least you know what you are getting - how about this business ethic


SALE Thin And lite varifocals 89.00
2-4-1


You buy the job on JAn 1st (cos that sort of shop is open on Jan 1st) and the lens falls out on march 1st.. so you go back, and they put a new one in. your problems start... headaches. you go in 5 times, no one knws whats going on. they remake it again, and you have the same problem.

Any clue whats going on....

The lab they use (thier own big central lab) used pro15 for the first pair, and run out of blanks so replaced the lost lens with the latest new batch of cheap lenses varilus expert. Did i say thin and lite - ah well..

the shop staff were unaware because

lack of training
lack of imagination
lab remarks up all progresive markings with the same pattern (fit cross 4 above the markings!), so they all look the same and presumably some apparently measure 2mm off in height etc.
That was one patient i sorted out last year:angry: