Seeking advice on Progressive Rx, Lens, Frames

[Scot Topia]

I am a customer, not an optician or eye care professional but I'm hoping to get some advice regarding a new pair of progressive bifocal glasses. I know SOME technical stuff, but not a lot. (E.g., I've read about "swim" and "corridor" in this forum but I don't know what they are.) I have two major constraints: (1) optical (2) personal comfort.

Optical constraint:
+8.00 -4.75 45 +2.00 (old Rx: +7.75, went up 0.25)
+6.75 -1.00 80 +2.00 (old Rx: +7.00, went down 0.25)
PD 65

Personal comfort: For about 2 years I've been wearing progressives in
similar (not identical) power in a Revolution RE005 50-20-140 frame.
The RE005 glasses are too big, keep slipping down my nose, etc. See:
<http://www.framesdirect.com/
framesfproduct.asp?listingid=101761&ftype=p&page=
0&singledisplay=1&numberorder=2>

My old pair of single vision glasses is a 48-17-135 Bugle Boy BB-15 (made by Marine Optical) and those are VERY comfortable and, I think, look good. I think those are around +7.50 and +6.50. Admittedly, the lenses are a bit thinner and lighter than the progressive lenses.

I wear my glasses very high up on my nose and close to my face and I'm thinking that the 17 mm bridge is very helpful in that regard. I'm short, so I think I need a lot of lens 'on top' because I am normally looking 'up'. I wear my glasses almost all the time and even fall asleep reading.

Frame-wise, I have found that a new pair of Brooks Brothers BB325 49-19-135 to be VERY comfortable in every store where I've tried them on "off the shelf" so I would have to go with that or something VERY similar.

I have been to almost every optical shop in my area and browsed the internet and have been offered MANY choices of lens. My current lenses are Zeiss Gradal but I don't know which "flavor" (Top, etc.) with AR coating.

If I go with Zeiss again using my local independent optician, it will be my most expensive option by a substantial amount so I am considering the others. Here is where I am hoping to get your input, technical and otherwise.

I've got quotes that range from around $250 to WAY over $500. The lens types are:
Pentax 1.67 (LensCrafters)
Seiko Proceed 2 (several places)
Zeiss Gradal
Essilor Ovation (Costco)
Varilux Panamix (several places)
J&J Definity - 1.60, NOT a 1.67 high index lens
Hoya WIDE - I think this is a 1.70 or 1.71 RI lens
etc.

I understand that different lenses and grinding designs have advantages for different purposes (high +; high -; high add; good peripheral vision; etc.) In general, which lens material / design would you recommend for my specific Rx? I mostly do office - reading - writing - computer work, but I am also somewhat active, moving about throughout a normal day. I am NOT a professional athlete or anything like that.

Some people say to stick with Zeiss if I'm already adapted to it. (My Rx has changed slightly: I think the old Rx is OD +7.75 -4.75 45 +2.00; OS +7.00 -1.00 80 +2.00.) Do you agree with that idea?

Just how different are all these lenses anyway? Maybe some fancy electro optical instrument can tell the difference to 6 decimal places but my eyesight is so bad, will I be able to tell the difference? Even one "brand" has many different "flavors": Essilor / Varilux: Panamic, Airware, Comfort, Ovation ... what's the difference?

Are there just a few labs that will actually cut this complicated Rx lens? That is, this is not a "1 hour" in-store LensCrafters Rx. Will everyone send out my order to the same regional Zeiss, Seiko, Essilor, Pentax, etc. lab to have this lens made up? If so, it wouldn't matter if I got the Zeiss from Store A or Store B, right? Or, are there a lot of independent labs that can do this Rx with, perhaps, variable quality regardless of brand?

Cross-referencing my "Costco" post, Costco will let me provide my own frame (e.g., the BB325) and put Essilor Ovation lenses in them for an $18 fee and that is still, by far, one of the cheapest options ($270, total), although that's the standard AR coating, not Crizal or Alize. If I'm accustomed to Zeiss Gradal Top will Essilor Ovation be as thin and light? What other differences might I notice? Is it worth (>$200 difference) the risk to try the Ovation lens?

Thank you very much for your help and advice.

[lensguy]

Rodenstock Impression Hyperop 1.67

Power range +6.00 - +13.00 up to 6.00 cyl

Check a Rodenstock UK or Canada web site, this is not avail in th US.

The BEST progressive for +

I have sold 2 prs in the last 6 months.
One to a family member who has had many great progressives (he is PICKY) his rx is +9ish with 2cyl and a 2.50add

The problem is other than this (free form) custom lens none of these others are designed to work at these powers. This is like having your own lens designer for your rx, your frame, and anatomy.

I cant say enough about these lenses GOOD LUCK,
Let us know how it goes!!

[Snitgirl]

Hi Scot -

This new frame that you are wanting, the Brooks Brothers, what will be the Seg Height of the Progessive in this particular frame? Also, would you happen to know the B measurement of this frame?
B = vertical from top to bottom of lens...

[Scot Topia]

Thank you for mentioning the Rodenstock lens. I'll try to find info locally (to me).

The Brooks Brothers BB325 is 38.7 mm in the B dimension in the 49-19-135. (It's 37.1 mm in the 47-19-135.) I don't know what "Seg Height" is, but most of the opticians in the shops say it's a good choice for my Rx. Depending on the shop and lens brand, I seem to recall them saying that they need either 23 mm or 28 mm for the progressive in my strength (power + add).

Thank you.

[Scot Topia]

I've read further in these forums and on the web about the fancy equipment that can used to design complicated progressive lenses, e.g., the $12,500 machine for dispensing Zeiss Gradal, the Varilux IPSEO or VisionPrint system, a Rodenstock version, etc. The quaint independent optometrist / optician shop I've used in the past does not have this stuff. They measure PD and that's about it. At least I do not recall fancier measurements when I got my first progressives 2 years ago.

I should add that even the big chain stores I went to recently (LensCrafters, Pearle, For Eyes, Costco ...) wrote up price quotes but did not appear to have any fancy machines in their mega-stores.

Should I try to locate a more modern store that measures PD, pantoscopic angle, back vertex distance, dihedral angle, etc.? Do you think the majority of opticians in places that don't have that capability will simply say, "Not necessary, you'll get a good fit with minimal measurements."?

Should I even seek out a Zeiss place that can do the Zeiss Individual rather than the Zeiss Top? Do you think it's much more expensive?

Thank you.

[Judy Canty]

If you are satisfied with your current pair of glasses, why are you going elsewhere for the new ones? Everyone here is offering great advice, however none of us will be fitting, fabricating or dispensing your eyewear. My advice is to find, or stay with, an Optician you are comfortable visiting and whose advice you trust. You will never over-pay for good advice and comfortable, well-fitted eyewear.

[Jedi]

I've read further in these forums and on the web about the fancy equipment that can used to design complicated progressive lenses, e.g., the $12,500 machine for dispensing Zeiss Gradal, the Varilux IPSEO or VisionPrint system, a Rodenstock version, etc. The quaint independent optometrist / optician shop I've used in the past does not have this stuff. They measure PD and that's about it. At least I do not recall fancier measurements when I got my first progressives 2 years ago.Scot your cylinder correction in your right eye puts you out of the power range for most of these types of progressives. I know the Ipseo and the ILT lenses from Rodenstock max out at -4.00 in the cyl.

[lensguy]

If you are satisfied with your current pair of glasses, why are you going elsewhere for the new ones? Everyone here is offering great advice, however none of us will be fitting, fabricating or dispensing your eyewear. My advice is to find, or stay with, an Optician you are comfortable visiting and whose advice you trust. You will never over-pay for good advice and comfortable, well-fitted eyewear.

I think its fair to check whats out there, however it can be confusing. When I buy a car/build a house/ get new golf clubs my goal is to get the absolute best that I can afford, somtimes I discover new things that make a huge diffrence (that I didnt know about) and I will change my buget if I find real value. Better vision would be an easy one.

[lensguy]

Scot your cylinder correction in your right eye puts you out of the power range for most of these types of progressives. I know the Ipseo and the ILT lenses from Rodenstock max out at -4.00 in the cyl.

Regular Impression is only a 4 cyl
The Impression Hyperop avail +6.00 - +13.00 with up to a 6.00cyl

Rodenstock canada: 1 800 387 7750

[Scot Topia]

Thanks, all, for the advice. I'm learning a lot. I've called Rodenstock, Zeiss and Essilor but there aren't that many people in my area dispensing the newer / newest products. Some of them are planning roll outs of those fancy machines (e.g., VisionPrint) in the unspecified future. If ordered here, the Rodenstock Impression and the Zeiss Individual both have to be made in Germany. No labs on this side of the Atlantic yet.

In the meantime, if I stick with the Zeiss Gradal Top and for my complex astigmatism, should the optician be measuring MORE than just PD? On the Zeiss and other web pages, they talk about BVD, dihedral and pantoscopic angles, etc. Zeiss has a little hand held wheely gizmo thing for measuring BVD on their web page but I've never seen my or any optician pull one out.

Do you folks measure such things when dispensing the pricey, strong Rx PAL lenses? Is PD sufficient to get the best possible Zeiss Gradal Top or any other almost state-of-the-art lens (Varilux Panamic, Seiko Proceed 2, etc.)?

If I understand things correctly, the forthcoming "individual" lenses will actually modify (cut/grind) the rear surface of the lens, not just the front surface, in order to get thinner lenses and better vision.

One exception and question: I was staying away from the J&J Definity because it's a 1.60 plastic and I thought it would be thicker and heavier but is that lens actually ground on both sides to 'compete' with the higher index lenses?

Thank you.

[drk]

Shamir Genesis in Trivex.

[Jason Carruthers]

bilateral ocular enucleation

[Jo]

If you are satisfied with your current pair of glasses, why are you going elsewhere for the new ones? Everyone here is offering great advice, however none of us will be fitting, fabricating or dispensing your eyewear. My advice is to find, or stay with, an Optician you are comfortable visiting and whose advice you trust. You will never over-pay for good advice and comfortable, well-fitted eyewear.I agree with Judy on this one. However, if you feel that you want to shop around - be sure to find out if the place you buy has any type of return policy. I'm sure that they will want your glasses to work out for you as much as you do but at your prescription, and the amount you are going to pay, it is a good idea to know what will happen just in case.

[Scot Topia]

> If you are satisfied with your current pair of glasses, why are you going elsewhere for the new ones?

I've been learning from the web and elsewhere that there are so many more options, possibly BETTER options, for my Rx. I wish I could buy several pair from different companies (Zeiss, Essilor, Seiko ...) and do a side by side comparison but it's just too expensive.

> My advice is to find, or stay with, an Optician you are comfortable visiting and whose advice you trust.

I've been to MANY opticians with my Rx and they are all pretty much the same: we already know that I'm going for the high-end PAL so they look things up in a chart (to make sure they can get +8.00/-4.75 in their favorite lens material and get the price) and, at most, measure a PD. I trust that all of them can do that correctly.

Some also make sure that the preferred frames have enough vertical distance ("B") to accommodate the progression (is "Seg Height" the length needed for the reading or distance "segment"?). Nobody talks about the options (e.g., Zeiss Individual) and measurements (BVD, dihedral angle, etc.) I've read about here and elsewhere.

I pretty much trust them all and my comfort level is pretty much the same (except for the one who smelled like a brewery). I guess I'm not too picky. But NO ONE seems to have gone the extra mile -- or diopter -- either.

You pros have been helpful, even if just by indicating that there really isn't always an easy concensus choice for a given Rx like mine. Thank you.

> be sure to find out if the place you buy has any type of return policy.

Nobody around here has a 100% satisfaction guaranty. As long as the lenses are properly made (to the Rx), it's mostly either a re-make in another frame or re-make at a discount policy.

Thank you.

[HarryChiling]

just my two cents. If you want your Back Vertex Distance and Tilt measured just ask the optician you are working with to do it. I don't always factor these measurements in, however if I see a strong Rx I do look to see that these measures are within the norm. You can kinda eye the frame and see if these measures would be needed or not.

[Robert Martellaro]

Scot,

I believe that you are concentrating too much on the technology issues and not enough on finding an optician who has the skills and experience to fit this type of Rx. Your existing optician has supplied you with eyeglasses that provide excellent visual and physical comfort, and probably got it right on the first try. That didn't happen because of the brand of lens used, it was because the optician knew how to fit strong and complex Rxs. In addition, they were probably using a top shelve lab that consistently provides excellent service and quality. Maybe if you explain your concerns they could come up with a few suggestions that will keep the cost down, using a slightly lower index of refraction for instance.

Hope this helps